What holds us down.

[Art Andrews]

I hope that makes some sense and gives people an idea of how it is possible for someone to not be able to share, and not want to share.

One thing I can appreciate is the difference between "can't share" and "won't share." When I am given something and asked not to share it, I do my best to honor that request, even when I want to share it and even when people would want the info. Such is the case with my current project. I have info that will be used on my armor that I can't share because I have been asked not to share it by the individuals who provided me with the information. While I would love to share, I won't break that commitment. However, I will share every possible detail that I am allowed to share.

IN regard to people who "won't share" because there are individuals who they don't like or don't want to have info because of some reason, all I can say is that it is a shame that you would hurt the whole community (not speaking to you specifically Midnight Trooper) just to spurn a few bad apples. There are bad people in every aspect of life, but are you really going to let them dictate your actions? There are plenty of people here who I don't care for or think are stooges, but I would never let those people stop me from sharing what I can with the rest of you. Could such actions mean that good info will get into "bad" hands and allow people I don't like to make better costumes? Sure could... but I think it is well worth it for all of the good guys who might benefit.

I guess one final thing, and I think I already mentioned this, is that this isn't a contest for me. I am not trying to be better than anyone and am in no contest with anyone else... I just want to make the best trooper I can, and where I can help others, I always will.

[lordvader74]

Can everyone respect that position here? Or are you sad for me because I am hoarding info and not giving it freely to the public world of prop collectors who **** and moan every time they hear about something that cannot or will not be shared?

I'm sad for you.

You prop elitist guys get on here and act like we're all Iranian or North Korean dictators screaming for the secrets of intercontinental ballistic nuclear missiles that we would just turn around and blow the world up with. We're talking about pieces of plastic that were made in a pinch and put in a movie for a few minutes then thrown in a warehouse somewhere people!

You can share all of your "super double top secret" information or you can shove it. I don't care. It's not going to make a difference in my life either way. I have my suit and am not going to spend another dime on it. I'm happy with what I have. It's just sad to see supposedly grown people get huffy over something so simple as how straps were placed on a piece of plastic that was used on screen for about 5 minutes total in a movie over 30 years ago b/c a few people want to improve their suit.

We've got you in this thread saying that people who want to improve their costumes are like a bunch of 1st graders wanting to take your ice cream and GINO in another thread calling all us 501st folks sad people who do midnight Toys-R-Us openings or something to that effect (couldn't quote it exactly b/c the thread magically disappeared) and you've got the audacity to look down at us "lowly" costumers? Puh-leez!

I've joined several prop sites to try and learn about that side of things...trying to keep an open mind and all. I don't get on there and spew vitriol about your hobby. Why do you guys think it's ok to come to a board like this and do it? Because you feel that somehow you're enlightening all us poor unwashed masses?

I better hush before I get in trouble. These are (usually) friendly boards and I don't want to upset the apple cart too much.

[Daetrin]

LOL. Yeah, it's not like we couldn't just pool money to buy one of Matt's disks and put it on torrent for everyone. How stupid does he (or you secret keepers) think we are?

It's more "why should we"? It is just a bunch of plastic after all. This stuff is great trivia and there is a small percent who really sweat each little wavy line.

For me I just enjoy trooping. When more accurate stuff surfaces I'll upgrade, but if not it doesn't detract from the fun I have. With a good job, two kids, etc. there are more important things in life then worrying about if my ABS strips really should be a certain grade of HIPS and they're 1mm too wide or narrow.

[6170]

I think its hilarious that someone is "hording" something that is not ever their own copy right!!

If I were to discover the secret recipe for KFC secret herbs and spices and then started to sell the recipe to the highest bidder

making them sign a confidentiality agreement that still does hold water if in court.

I have spoken with Steve Sansweet a few time and he has told

me that as we all know Lucas loves the idea of the 501st and all it does for charities and represents the spirit of Star Wars, what will bring

everything to a grinding halt is someone starting to sell his very copyrighted ideas for profit . No matter HOW hard, or how long it took for them to figure

them out. Ask Andrew Ainsworth, if you don't think it can happen to anyone. I have seen Steve bring things to a screeching halt in person and its not very pretty.

Blanket statement coming up.........

I am happy for you if you shelled out a ton of cash for X Y Z.

But keep that in the PM world or to emails. Because you will get people sued or shut down.

There has been Cease and Dissit letters over in TIE pilot land and lets not start that over here.

[nice-biscuit]

All this stems from the fact that Matt didn't want to share freely, but make money out of something that was not his to make money from. In the end, it's just about the money for a few.My bit of plastic is worth more than your bit of plastic.

Thank goodness for the knowledgeable ones who want to share without wanting some form of payment.

[lordvader74]

All this stems from the fact that Matt didn't want to share freely, but make money out of something that was not his to make money from. In the end, it's just about the money for a few.My bit of plastic is worth more than your bit of plastic.

Thank goodness for the knowledgeable ones who want to share without wanting some form of payment.

Amen!

[Midnight Trooper]

So once again Rolf you impress me with the way you post. You were the only person who didnt have something negative to say. Does that mean you can understand where I am coming from on this matter?

I'm sad for you.

You can share all of your "super double top secret" information or you can shove it. I don't care. It's not going to make a difference in my life either way. I have my suit and am not going to spend another dime on it. I'm happy with what I have. It's just sad to see supposedly grown people get huffy over something so simple as how straps were placed on a piece of plastic that was used on screen for about 5 minutes total in a movie over 30 years ago b/c a few people want to improve their suit.

Ok, this is the sort of attitude that is perfectly ok to have. You are basically saying you dont care if I shared or not because it wont make a difference to you. You are already happy with what you have. That is all any of us want!

The only people who are getting huffy are the people who are responding to my initial post. I am not lording this info over you people and saying "nah nah boo boo" I would love for you to have it if it were free from the get go. What reason would I have for not wanting that to happen? We all could enjoy it and benefit from it and that would be great for community and goodwill for all.

But my post was just trying to explain why myself and many others feel the way we do. If you cant get over the fact that I know something you dont then that is immature. I just am not willing to share it with everyone for a number of reasons. And yes, some of those reasons are selfish. Why should I have to take crap for that? This is not a contest but isnt it ok if I want to feel some pride knowing my armor was strapped correctly with the info that I got for myself? If you all knew how to strap your armor correctly and all worked on it together, that would be awesome. But then my info would not be special any more and I just lost the great feeling of doing something different. That is another force that drives this hobby besides free sharing.

Why when Brak's says he cant share something does everyone aplaud his commitment and when I say the same thing I am attacked for being some sort of elitist? I hate the elitists! They are the reason I cant get certain things that I want in this hobby. But I never have debated their right to be elite. I have never felt entitiled to anything they have. Why should they share with me? Thats their right to not want to.

We've got you in this thread saying that people who want to improve their costumes are like a bunch of 1st graders wanting to take your ice cream and GINO in another thread calling all us 501st folks sad people who do midnight Toys-R-Us openings or something to that effect (couldn't quote it exactly b/c the thread magically disappeared) and you've got the audacity to look down at us "lowly" costumers? Puh-leez!

I dont look down on costumers and I dare you to show me where I said that. I totally get why you do what you do. Its fun and cool! But my example of the ice cream is accurate. The response I got to my post is proof. I had a bunch of people yelling "We want ice cream you big bully!" at me. Why is my perspective any less acceptable than yours?

And saying I shouldnt be part of a community for this perspective is out of line. I dont participate in discussions often because I dont have anything to add. Its people like Braks who make the discoveries. But I am far more inclined to take interest and have done tons of research about the props specifically. Just because I dont do the costuming thing myself and am not involved with that branch of community is no reason to label me a hoarding elitist and say I dont care about you guys.

Just because I have something special and am not going to share it that makes me a bad person. I guess we should all write our congressmen about the people who make millions of dollars then?

Why doesnt our country give all the info about our space and nuke program to France as well? We are friends with them after all and it would be great if they had a better space or nuke program.

But some information just isnt free and thats never going to change. Its only human.

[6170]

Just because I have something special and am not going to share it that makes me a bad person.

But some information just isnt free and thats never going to change. Its only human.

"The 501st Legion is a worldwide Star Wars costuming organization comprised of and operated by Star Wars fans.

While it is not sponsored by Lucasfilm Ltd., it is Lucasfilm's preferred Imperial costuming group.

Star Wars, its characters, costumes, and all associated items are the intellectual property of Lucasfilm.

© 2009 Lucasfilm Ltd. & TM. All rights reserved. Used under authorization."

Doesn't make you a bad person but, it does makes you irrelevant on these boards.

[Rolf]

I hear you Keegan.

I will try to explain, my point of view:

I´m also a member of another forum, where not all members are nice.

I still like to share there, but at the same time.

I don´t wanna give away free candy, because its very rare i´m getting something nice back from them.

I love the MEPD, and i have been feeling welcome from the day i join back then.

The MEPD, have give away a lot of the TD knowledge i got today.

So i like to give, something back when i can.

But if you have given your word to a sell, to keep it for your self.

Then i guess, it would be wrong to share it whit the public.

Over and out

[lordvader74]

"The 501st Legion is a worldwide Star Wars costuming organization comprised of and operated by Star Wars fans.

While it is not sponsored by Lucasfilm Ltd., it is Lucasfilm's preferred Imperial costuming group.

Star Wars, its characters, costumes, and all associated items are the intellectual property of Lucasfilm.

© 2009 Lucasfilm Ltd. & TM. All rights reserved. Used under authorization."

Doesn't make you a bad person but, it does makes you irrelevant on these boards.

X-man there just hit the nail right on the head. You guys act like you own the rights to this stuff.

[Art Andrews]

Why when Brak's says he cant share something does everyone aplaud his commitment and when I say the same thing I am attacked for being some sort of elitist?

I have to pay a lot of people off...

And saying I shouldnt be part of a community for this perspective is out of line. I dont participate in discussions often because I dont have anything to add. Its people like Braks who make the discoveries. But I am far more inclined to take interest and have done tons of research about the props specifically. Just because I dont do the costuming thing myself and am not involved with that branch of community is no reason to label me a hoarding elitist and say I dont care about you guys.

I have to agree that there is no reason why you shouldn't be part of the community... and some of that goes back to the whole can't share vs won't share thing. BTW... I haven't made that many trooper discoveries... The only one I can think of right off the top of my head was the Pony Fur Backpack on the dewback.... I have just been blessed to know a lot of different and very talented individuals.

I think the crux of the issue here is that none of us got to where we are in a vaccum. We ALL, everyone of us, even Gino and Matt and Paul, got to where we are because others shared with us. The frustration comes in when the people who have gotten to where they are largely due to the generosity and sharing attitude of others, decide that they won't share their findings or information. At that point the system breaks down. Taking but not giving is never going to be smiled upon. It is just sad to see people do that.

Another thing I would address is the whole issue of "I put time and money into this find." Haven't we all? Who hasn't spent hours doing whatever it is we do? Yes, some give more and some give less. Some are able to give more and some are able to give less. Not everyone who takes will give. Such is life, but we have all put in time and money that we will never get back. What is to be gained by withholding the info too?

In regard to the pics from Matt, if you agreed not to make them public, then don't. I can't fault you for that no matter what circumstances Matt attained them under or the fact that his whole deal there is a farce and little more than blood money. That isn't your fault and if you aren't supposed to make them available publicly then don't. However, as you know, that info is not all proprietary and neither Matt nor anyone else "own" the information...

[lordvader74]

I have to pay a lot of people off...

I have to agree that there is no reason why you shouldn't be part of the community... and some of that goes back to the whole can't share vs won't share thing. BTW... I haven't made that many trooper discoveries... The only one I can think of right off the top of my head was the Pony Fur Backpack on the dewback.... I have just been blessed to know a lot of different and very talented individuals.

I think the crux of the issue here is that none of us got to where we are in a vaccum. We ALL, everyone of us, even Gino and Matt and Paul, got to where we are because others shared with us. The frustration comes in when the people who have gotten to where they are largely due to the generosity and sharing attitude of others, decide that they won't share their findings or information. At that point the system breaks down. Taking but not giving is never going to be smiled upon. It is just sad to see people do that.

Another thing I would address is the whole issue of "I put time and money into this find." Haven't we all? Who hasn't spent hours doing whatever it is we do? Yes, some give more and some give less. Some are able to give more and some are able to give less. Not everyone who takes will give. Such is life, but we have all put in time and money that we will never get back. What is to be gained by withholding the info too?

In regard to the pics from Matt, if you agreed not to make them public, then don't. I can't fault you for that no matter what circumstances Matt attained them under or the fact that his whole deal there is a farce and little more than blood money. That isn't your fault and if you aren't supposed to make them available publicly then don't. However, as you know, that info is not all proprietary and neither Matt nor anyone else "own" the information...

That is very well said Braksbuddy! You're so much nicer than I am. I get my dander up and get rather confrontational.

Basically what I see is this: "I was stupid enough to pay a whole lot of money to someone who didn't have the right to charge me money for what they didn't own in the first place. And because I shelled out the money, I need to hold the info back to make me feel better about getting ripped."

Like I said, it's not going to change my world a whole heckuva lot since I'm done shelling money on my suit anyway. It just hacks me off for all the people on here who really want to try and improve their suits but can't. It's that whole overarching air of "I'm better than you are" that drives me nuts. We're talking about plastic costumes that none of us owns the rights to people! Sheesh!

[Scootch]

Guys, we've all agreed MEPD is a place for sharing and enjoying one another's breakthroughs, triumphs, and travesties. Let's have some fun and enjoy one another. Life is too short. If anyone wishes to keep something to themselves.......do the rest of us a favor and "keep it to yourself" because none of us really gives a care anyway.

[Midnight Trooper]

Basically what I see is this: "I was stupid enough to pay a whole lot of money to someone who didn't have the right to charge me money for what they didn't own in the first place. And because I shelled out the money, I need to hold the info back to make me feel better about getting ripped."

Now I've been called stupid. Now I really want to share with you.

I saw what I wanted, paid the price for it, and now I have want I want. If you think that's stupid then I dont know what to say. I dont have to hold on to it because it makes me feel better than you guys. I want to hold on to it because I paid for it so I could use it for my project. Its just elastic and snaps for pete's sake! But I have absolutely no reason to wish that people like you get their hands on it and take away the great feeling that comes with having something rare. When you ever do have something rare you might understand.

Its the same as telling somebody that has a rare trading card to copy it and give it to everybody. Sure, its great for those other people and the guy who had the rare thing will be liked for giving it to all. But he also feels like what he has isnt as special any more. And if he didnt think he would want to share it with everyone the correct response is "Aww thats alright. I understand why you wouldnt want to." That is respectful and maybe the next time that guy will aquire something he does feel like he wants to share with everyone to make up for not sharing the other thing.

But if the response is "You jerk! Give it to us! You didnt print the card, you dont own the rights to it. Everyone will hate you if you dont share." The desire to remain friendly with those people goes right out the window. And that is what I am feeling like here.

When this strapping system and pictures become public, as someday they surely will, I will be all the happier for the few who will use it to make their costumes better. I may even help out by telling you some discoveries I might have made about the armor and we will have intresting discussions about it.

But before then I am to remain the bad guy and be universally disliked, not being respected or understood. And all the while my feeling of community, the same feeling people like Rolf have for this board being a nice place where we can all work together, is being destroyed.

Why cant you just accept that fact that you cant have something? The fact that I was just like you before I had these pictures and would feel like someone who did have them should share with everyone should tell you I am not for hoarding info just to keep it from somebody else. But I never, ever have made a post bashing the people who wouldnt share.

I would like to share some things said in several different situations in PMs to TE over at white amor.

Me:

"Hey Matt. If you don't want to share the helmet bump information, that's your choice. I'm not going to call you names like some other people. But it is kinda frustrating to have these people who know an awful lot hanging it just out of reach."

Another time it was

"Thanks Matt! That's a pretty intresting answer."

My response to a concern he had in another situation,

"No worries about me spreading it around. I am extremly secretive and always know much more than I let on publicly. I really just like to learn the answers to some of these questions so I can move on ya know?"

Matt:

"So just be patient as when I can show more I will."

"Not right now but it will happen."

"I cannot say anything on the helmet right now, but I will later. Cool?"

"I really dont want to give it out.

One of those identifying factors we use to determine real from fakes

and well, current and previous owners all agree we dont talk about it"

You see the attitude myself and others have about sharing? If you want something then ask for it and respect the owners feelings once you have it. Dont sit around and complain that people are being mean to you on purpose for their own satisfaction! And Matt's responses didnt always add up to something he followed through on but that is the way it goes.

[lordvader74]

You misunderstand. I didn't say what I said to directly call you stupid. I don't know you. It was a broad generalization, not aimed directly at the CD purchase. Again, I DO NOT CARE if you share it or not. What I do care is when a "prop" person comes on a costuming forum and says "I know something you don't know." Even if it's done in a nice way it's very condescending. That being said, you're a heckuva lot nicer and easier to deal with than someone I named earlier.

As for owning something rare, hoss you have no idea. This stormtrooper stuff is just secondary. I'm a comic collector first and foremost. Believe me, I have plenty of rare stuff. That's why your collector card analogy doesn't hold water with me. A copy is just that, a copy. It isn't an original. Reprints don't have anywhere near the value of the original. That's what grinds me so about folks with this stormtrooper stuff. The stuff passed off as "first generation" is nothing more than a recast of an original! Then they get mad if somebody copies what they copied illegally anyway? WTF?? It all boils down to a certain few elitists wanting to make money and make themselves feel superior. Not saying that you're one of those, but you sound an awful lot like a disciple of one (who I notice pops in to read this particular thread after every post you make...hmmm).

I say this, let's you and me just agree to disagree. You ain't gonna change my mind and I ain't gonna change yours.

[6170]

When you ever do have something rare you might understand.

Why cant you just accept that fact that you cant have something? The fact that I was just like you before I had these pictures and would feel like someone who did have them should share with everyone should tell you I am not for hoarding info just to keep it from somebody else. But I never, ever have made a post bashing the people who wouldnt share.

This is a joke right?

Someone is putting us on.

A. You were never like me.

B. We have something very common here its called, respect for each other unique talents and ideas. And we do not mock those who may not have funds to have the super nice armor. In fact I have seen people on here donate armor FOR FREE to their fellow Sandtroopers.

We share not because we have to but because we enjoy i it.

C. When people come in here boasting they have something that we don't most of us could care less. This is the last website you should be

posting that kind of stuff.

If you come to MEPD then leave your ego at the door or deal with the consequences.

[6170]

It all boils down to a certain few elitists wanting to make money and make themselves feel superior. Not saying that you're one of those, but you sound an awful lot like a disciple of one (who I notice pops in to read this particular thread after every post you make...hmmm).

Hmmm what on earth could you be referring to??

6 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)

5 Members: xavier, Midnight Trooper, TD2702, troopermaster, gino

LOL

[lordvader74]

Hmmm what on earth could you be referring to??

6 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)

5 Members: xavier, Midnight Trooper, TD2702, troopermaster, gino

LOL

[Midnight Trooper]

So what I am hearing here is I shouldnt come to MEPD because I know more than some of you and am not a costumer. I guess Brak's should leave too then. And TM, and Gino, and TE. Wait a second! Arent those the same people who gave you most of the info or armor you currently have?

And I keep seeing people reffering to "boasting" that I have something. Not at all. I have had it for some time now and this is the first time I have ever said I had it so I could avoid these sorts of jealous feelings. I get it. I really do.

And telling me I was never like you that I dont like sharing or am not respectful and beyond that am mocking you? Once again I have done nothing to warrant that attitude. I do like to share. In fact I share all I can, with my friends. With people I know and trust.

[lordvader74]

And I keep seeing people reffering to "boasting" that I have something. Not at all. I have had it for some time now and this is the first time I have ever said I had it so I could avoid these sorts of jealous feelings. I get it. I really do.

I've read and re-read this thread and I see nowhere that anyone displays any jealousy. Truthfully, (and I know this is going to sound harsh and hurtful) what I feel for you is pity.

[RoCKo]

come on, guys, keep it nice and civil...

IMO Midnight Trooper has a right and after his agreement with Matt also a obligation to not share his information.

i really don´t want to believe that Midnight Trooper doesn´t want to share his information but it´s a matter of respect to his agreement with Matt.

you might not like Matt or his behaviour but that doesn´t mean you can just disrespect his will.

he took these pictures at the LFL archives (legal or illegal) so i think it´s his right to make such agreements not to share.

like Art wrote he, like Midnight Trooper, was enTRUSTed with informations so it´s about TRUST.

i, like all of you, would LOVE to see all those pictures and god knows that i share everything i can share but i still respect his will.

don´t get me wrong, that doesn´t mean i like such behaviour nor do i like such selfishness of hoarding informations.

[td7603]

...wow.

my eyes hurt after reading all that. I can't believe people are still "info hoarding" at this point in the game. The MEPD is way better than that.

my feelings aside, I'm pretty sure you all are beating a dead horse at this point. I do not want to see this turn into a flame war.

please take this to PM's.