Hmm. Upgrades.

[Art Andrews]

Someone put it to me this way:

If you want as close to possible to what was used on screen, get TE2.

If you want as close to possible to what the ideally the armor should have been (idealized), get TM.

Would that be an accurate statement? It seems to jibe with what Gino is saying.

I think that is a pretty fair statement to make, although from my direct comparisons of TE vs Gino, it certainly appears that Gino's armor is closer in terms of accuracy to what is seen in ANH.

I want to make it clear that I am not taking anything away from Paul. He has captured details in his armor that have yet to be implemented in any other set. His sculpture work on the stormtrooper is second to none, however it is a sculpt and from my experience, no sculpt, no matter how insanely talented the artist, will be as close as a suit that has lineage back to the original. As Gino and others have said, if you want a suit that LOOKS like what we think ANH looks like, Paul's definitely is the way to go. I honestly think that is what most people want. They want the look. They don't necessarily care if it actually is accurate, as long as it has the look and certain details they expect to see present.... and as they say.... there is nothing wrong with that!!!

[Art Andrews]

i knew there was shrinkage in size of TE and AP from the original...

This reminds me of the old prop myth about the Don Post Fett helmet being 5-10% smaller than the real deal due to this mysterious yet profound "shrinkage." Only years later did we come to find after direct comparison... the DP, even though numerous generations removed from the original was not even .5% smaller!!! I keep hearing people bat around these figures about shrinkage and my question is this: where did that come from? Has anyone actually made any comparisons? Is this just an eyeballed guestimate? Is this from some old prop myth about the percentage something shrinks everytime it is copied? My Concern here is not to prove whose suit is the right size (I don't know... I don't have a real suit here to compare it to) but that we don't make emphatic statements as if they were fact when they are just rumor that has been passed from one person to another.

[troopermaster]

You have hit the nail smack on head braks

[TD-4935]

yeah, maybe i should have said "i've heard from a bloke who knew a bloke who's mate said...."

for what it's worth, and this may confuse matters further, my SDS is noticeably bigger than my AP. Whatever the true origins of the SDS, all the parts appear a "smidge" roomier. i had thought this was a trimming issue but on closer inspection and just putting them on (they are both strapped the same using the same measurements for elastic) there is definately a size difference.

just as a personal opinion side note, and for the most part this is viewing from computer screen, but TM's kit has captured something that the ROTJ retro fit kits are missing. i can't say for sure what it is and it also depends on the build of the person wearing it (you 've all got to admit that even a Gino or TE2 shimmed all to **** for the larger troopers would look a little odd)

for me the thighs on ROTJ retro fitted kits always appear too short (and are definately shaped slightly differently from the SDS at least), the chest piece not quite right, the biceps seem a little shorter and the shoulder bells are very very ROTJ like.

Also you have to take into consideration the fact that the plastic used on the movie suits looks to be far more flexible and form fitting and that also accounts for the difference in look from ANH movie suit to ROTJ retro fit kit.

As i own two "lineage" kits i would be interested to see how a TM kit looks and feels in the flesh. i shall start saving now

i don't claim to be an "Expert" in any way, but i have good observational skills and i try to use them to better my understanding of the differences, albeit sometimes completely misguided. some things will remain speculation until screen used ANH suits all fall in our laps (as , with the exception of the helmets, the retro fit must have been done using observations from screen 2D images so it's still possible the translation has been lost somewherre) and like most people here am learning more and more of the history of all this which i find very addictive.

Just had my first coffee, i seem to have laboured the point

apologies for derailing the upgrade question

[Art Andrews]

TD-4935,

I am pretty much in agreement with what you have posted. I think the thing that Paul's kit has captured that has not been seen in other kits is that he has keyed in on all the details that define ANH for us. Even Gino hasn't done that yet, although I certainly hope he does in his next armor revision, if he ever gets off his butt and gives us a next revision... I believe the key to Paul's kit is that we now know a large number of details that we look for as key aspects of the ANH armor and as we go down the list, we can put a checkmark in every box for Paul's armor in regard to those key aspects. Again, I hope no one sees me bashing Paul's work. I am not at all. I simply believe that different people want different things and one is no less than the other. The only time I get concerned is when people begin to say that Paul's armor is the most screen accurate armor around. That does not particularly strike me as true. His definitely has more of the key aspects we associate with ANH but that doesn't necessarily make it the most screen accurate. It does make it the most visually pleasing to those of us looking for those aspects.

In regard to big people getting into a suit based off the RotJ armor... not going to happen. They simply weren't built for big people and bit people will have to go another route. It would be like me trying to wear a Vader... 5'11" and 150lbs... the Vader suit was simply not made for someone like me and I would look silly in it.

[SethB6025]

I'm curious about the origins of the "mystery prop shrinkage" stories. If your mold shrinks that badly, you would think there would be severe cracking. Mold shrinkage likely comes down to less-than-millimeter reductions, although if original suits were .060 and replicas are either .080 or more, than the replicas would be larger than the originals, even with a minor amount of magical mold shrinkage.

I think it comes down to modifications, the GF helmet wasn't smaller because it shrunk, it was smaller because it was re-shaped. Some of the AP/TE parts are most likely smaller because of the ROTJ to ANH restoration process.

[SandtrooperScout]

No worries about "hijacking" the thread. I think it's informative. I've often wondered myself about the different size percentages and find it interesting.

However, what I've been able to gather so far is that I'm most likely just going to have get another FX kit to get something that fits alright? I'm not the idealized 5'10 180 pounds. I'm more of the fireplug/tree trunk type... 5'7-5'8 (depending on who measures) and 205. Currently I have FX armor, with Arsonsmith's ab plate and an AP helmet.

[butcherbird]

His definitely has more of the key aspects we associate with ANH but that doesn't necessarily make it the most screen accurate. It does make it the most visually pleasing to those of us looking for those aspects.

Just for the sake of semantics, how can something that looks the most like what is seen on screen not be considered the most screen accurate? It either looks like the movie or it doesn't (or "less like" the movie, if we're going to talk degrees of accuracy). Construction materials aside, if it walks like an ANH trooper and quacks like an ANH trooper...it's an ANH trooper.

No intention of argument, just trying to seek clarification.

-Todd

[gino]

I understand where you are coming from Todd.

The difference is, to the casual observer and at-a-glance, it looks correct.

But when heavily scrutinized against film original pieces, it falls apart.

For some, probably for most, that is totally fine.

For me though, I don't care about what the prop should look like, or what it looks like in my mind's eye. I want it to look just like the film prop in every way as if you set it right next to an original.

I'm interested in it from an artistic/historic//purist/anal-accuracy point of view, as opposed from a practical costumer's point of view.

Although, I admit, I started out with one point of view and over the years grew into the other. I wasn't always a purist.

I find that happens to a lot of people when they stay focused on a particular prop area. They start to want the more and more accurate.

[Defstartrooper]

Surely there are no truly accurate suits available anywhere all the ones from movie suits are reworked from ROTJ back to ANH arent they ? they might be slight differences but they are still there.

Pauls suit is fantastic from what i have seen it looks really good but it is an artists interpretation not a direct reproduction.

In my mind neither can be described as truly accurate in the literal sense of the word.

The thing to ask yourself is do you want a suit that has some lineage to an original movie suit but lacks some features or do you want an artist sculpted suit which includes features that were present on the ANH suits but arent seen on any previously available suit ?

From a collecting point of view the former would probably be first choice due to provenance.

From a costuming point of view the latter is a good choice i think because of its overall look and inclusion of those features.

[gino]

I can agree with that.

But what if a suit came along that had lineage AND the anh specific details, some of which a lot of people don't know about even to this day?

In time.

[Defstartrooper]

Cool look forward to that

[SandtrooperScout]

But given what's available today however, what I've been able to gather so far is that I'm most likely just going to have get another FX kit to get something that fits, right?

[SethB6025]

Lineage + faithful original sculpt = I'll take one of each please.

[Art Andrews]

But given what's available today however, what I've been able to gather so far is that I'm most likely just going to have get another FX kit to get something that fits, right?

Yup. If you are a big guy, you are pretty much screwed. although I have seen guys shim original-based armor and honestly, I would rather go that route than FX armor, but that is just my opinion.

[SandtrooperScout]

Yup. If you are a big guy, you are pretty much screwed. although I have seen guys shim original-based armor and honestly, I would rather go that route than FX armor, but that is just my opinion.

But doesnt it then LOOK like it's shimmed all to **** and back?

[butcherbird]

I understand where you are coming from Todd.

The difference is, to the casual observer and at-a-glance, it looks correct.

But when heavily scrutinized against film original pieces, it falls apart.

For some, probably for most, that is totally fine.

For me though, I don't care about what the prop should look like, or what it looks like in my mind's eye. I want it to look just like the film prop in every way as if you set it right next to an original.

I'm interested in it from an artistic/historic//purist/anal-accuracy point of view, as opposed from a practical costumer's point of view.

Although, I admit, I started out with one point of view and over the years grew into the other. I wasn't always a purist.

I find that happens to a lot of people when they stay focused on a particular prop area. They start to want the more and more accurate.

Gino - Thanks for the input. I would just say that IMO what people like Paul are doing (and I don't mean to speak for him at all) is pretty firmly based on the pursuit of "artistic/historic//purist/anal-accuracy", and not merely practical costuming. To me, that kind of label would be better suited to FX-type items, where it's more of a general "stormtrooper" look rather than a specific look based on one specific movie.

As far as I know (and correct me if I'm wrong), TE is the only one who claims to have seen authentic ANH armor in the LFL archives. Yet his "ANH" armor, especially the forearms, differs pretty drastically from what I can see on screen.

I sincerely hope that one day an original ANH trooper suit will surface (preferrably screen identifiable) and we can all get a chance to unlock the mysteries.

-Todd

[Art Andrews]

I sincerely hope that one day an original ANH trooper suit will surface (preferrably screen identifiable) and we can all get a chance to unlock the mysteries.

-Todd

That will be an awesome day!!! I am sure a couple of the suits have to be SOMEWHERE... would be amazing to see one turn up.

[Rolf]

I sincerely hope that one day an original ANH trooper suit will surface (preferrably screen identifiable) and we can all get a chance to unlock the mysteries.

-Todd

That will be an awesome day!!! I am sure a couple of the suits have to be SOMEWHERE... would be amazing to see one turn up.

Copy that.

I really hope that we some day, have a real screen used anh storm trooper to recast.

To that happen, i think the best armor buy is: TM or TE2/AP.

Cheers troops

[troopermaster]

There are ANH suit's out there somewhere, there's got to be. I mean if a real ESB helmet can turn up at a car boot sale and sell for £40 (later sold for something like £15k) someone has got to have one not knowing the true value of these things. One day a suit will turn up, one day....

[RoCKo]

man, that would be a historical day!

we should get a specific name for this day!

"TROOMSDAY"

..........TROOPERS - DOOMSDAY..........

[freakengine]

Having ANY ANH suit turn up would be like 1000 Xmas mornings all at once!

Regarding the sizing issue, (*opinion alert*) it appears to me that TM's armor is larger than armor from the ROTJ lineage. I've seen both in person, along with many pics on a variety of body types. I know a good bit of sizing can be determined during assembly, but the TM suits seem to be able to accommodate a larger frame than AP. I don't think I'd EVER be able to squeeze into an AP suit at 6-2, 200 lbs, but TM seems doable with a little shimming or wider strips on the backs of the thighs like I've seen him do before. Am I seeing things? I haven't done hallucinogens for quite some time, but am willing to be proved wrong.

To me, the bottom line is truthful info without all the propaganda. Maybe one day we'll actually get a comparison pic of all the current suit parts, though I think that possibility left town with the Rose parade. Until then, it really is speculation based on each individual's observations and bias.

[SethB6025]

Sometime this summer, between OLG and Carida we are going to do a all-brand photo. Almost all are accounted for between the two groups. I have a couple TM parts, and I would agree that it may be able to accommodate slightly more girth than an AP or TGuns. In regard to arms anyway, I can't speak to the rest of it. Although I will be able to before too long.

[Daetrin]

Hook on the FISD boards said that there are newer updates to the FX suits on the horizon, but didn't offer much in the way of specifics. Anyone here have any info on that? Is it just helmet corrections, or more?

[weiBes trooper]

Sometime this summer, between OLG and Carida we are going to do a all-brand photo. Almost all are accounted for between the two groups. I have a couple TM parts, and I would agree that it may be able to accommodate slightly more girth than an AP or TGuns. In regard to arms anyway, I can't speak to the rest of it. Although I will be able to before too long.

if you want bigger arms, go with the 18mm shims istead of 15mm. seems to cure the problem.