Military channel

[Vadersf15t]

I was just watching the military channel. Very interesting. They had a decent portion on the MG34 and the improved MG42. I got a close look at live footage of an MG34 being shot... pretty creepy stuff, and the sound is amazing. As much as people love detail, my seeing this makes me never want to actually own a real MG34. They had mentioned that this is the same gun that because of its sheer volume of fire, was a major cause of the death toll on D-Day....

a moment of silence for those who died in past wars and those who are at war now...

[whitecommando]

It is an iconic weapon... unfortunately, in a terrible way. Depending on how it was fed ammunition (belt or drum), the volume of fire could reach 900 rounds per minute. The MG-42 could exceed 1,000.

It was probably the infantry weapon that caused the most allied casualties from the beginning of the war, to its end.

It is also a weapon that was given to an army that was made up of a portion of NAZIs, but a greater portion of patriots and cosncripts.

Not trying to say the Geramn army was a bunch of great guys... they did atrocious things. That being said, all armies generally have a rule of subjugation, pillage, destruction and reformation of placated/conquered subjects to their way of life.

The good thing about the German Military Industry, after the fact, was the capture and integration of their technology (as well as their military doctrine - General Norman Scwartzkopf used Field Marshall Irwin Rommel's tactics, to a tee, in Operation Desert Storm), anyway, back to topic... rockets, tanks, and infantry weapons.

Worth mentioning, the capture of partially completed working protytpes (unfortunately as well by the Russians) which were reversed engineered, and led to the F-86 Sabre, and the MiG-15... note, they are almost exactly the same plane as this...

It was the Focke-Wulf Ta-183 Huckebein. It would have been in the skies by 1946. The F-86 and MiG-15 are this plane... if you do not believe it, then, well, you are wrong!

Anyway, Star Wars is about war. Lucas used weapons that are imposing. Laser swords are Samurai swords... no telling the numbers that died by the sword during Japanese feudalism. Still, it is what it is... a weapon made to kill, and kill well. Same goes for the MG-34 (and 42).

Don't over think it, or feel guitly. Put some T-track on the barrel and make laser sounds when you point it at people.

John's History Lesson has concluded.

[TD-1536]

John's History Lesson has concluded.

Thank you, sir. Spot on lesson, too.

I'm in no way a war monger, but am equally interested in war history and military equipment, have been since I was a kid. I don't get the Military Channel, but always watch the WWII stuff on the History Channel.

[stukatrooper]

the father of the machine gun.Hiram Maxim

In 1881 the American inventor, Hiram Maxim, visited the Paris Electrical Exhibition. While he was at the exhibition he met a man who told him: "If you wanted to make a lot of money, invent something that will enable these Europeans to cut each other's throats with greater facility."

Maxim moved to London and over the next few years worked on producing an effective machine-gun. In 1885 he demonstrated the world's first automatic portable machine-gun to the British Army. Maxim used the energy of each bullet's recoil force to eject the spent cartridge and insert the next bullet. The Maxim Machine-Gun would therefore fire until the entire belt of bullets was used up. Trials showed that the machine-gun could fire 500 rounds per minute and therefore had the firepower of about 100 rifles.

The Maxim Machine-Gun was adopted by the British Army in 1889. The following year the Austrian, German, Italian, Swiss and Russian armies also purchased Maxim's gun. The gun was first used by Britain`s colonial forces in the Matabele war in 1893-94. In one engagement, fifty soldiers fought off 5,000 Matabele warriors with just four Maxim guns.

The success of the Maxim Machine-Gun inspired other inventors. The German Army's Maschinengewehr and the Russian Pulemyot Maxima were both based on Maxim's invention.

In 1912 the British Army transferred its loyalties to the Vickers Gun and lighter Lewis Gun. However, in the First World War, several of the minor European armies continued to use the Maxim Gun.

Fire power check out the guys shoulder when firing the MG 34

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gDfglolql2Q

[whitecommando]

Thanks Mike. For fun, I did a little bit of research on this German plane... the Soviets officially denied the schematics and wind-tunnel models influenced the design of their impressive fighter, the MiG-15... but it is clearly obvious, and I found articles stating that a Mikoyan-Gurevich prototype (copy) flew in 1947.

How did the Russians, and Mikoyan-Gurevich, go from the Mig-9 (their last fighter of WW2 AND a mediocre airplane at best), to a high-quality, near super-sonic jet fighter?

I guess the same way we did... we took German tactics and engineering, and folded into our military doctrine and military industry.

Here is a cool quote (found here - http://blog.360.yahoo.com/blog-BN8GTLI8 ... cq=1&p=700) ...

Again, it should be emphasized that both of these startlingly new, early jet turbine powered fighters directly owe their existence to Focke-Wulf’s Hans Multhopp developed Ta-183 design. Although the MiG-15 had an edge in climb rate and high-altitude performance, the Sabre had better overall maneuverability and low-speed performance. At about 80% of the weight of a Sabre, the MiG was lighter and carried slow firing, but powerful cannon, instead of multiple, high rate machine guns of lower caliber (like the Sabre), but it is hard to overlook the fact that both of these Korean War antagonists were the direct and indisputable result of the same German pioneering jet research carried out during the Second World War. Moreover, despite a few dissimilarities, both aircraft were remarkably comparable in terms of capability. Two advantages that the F-86 had over the MiG were 1) that its pilots had much better and more thorough training than their Korean adversaries, and 2) a moveable plane horizontal stabiliser. In this last specific, the MiG-15 was designed with a fixed mid-tail horizontal stabiliser that used conventional control surfaces, whereas the F-86 (later models) benefited substantially from the enhanced control enabled by the ‘all-moving’ horizontal tail concept.

The Germans were good at making stuff. They did over-engineer many weapons, hence more parts, and more time to make and repair.

One more interesting German/Russian/Star Wars triangle...

The STG-44 assault rifle, made by Germans and quite effective at killing... Well, the dude that designs it gets captured in 1945 and then is "relocated" and chained to a desk at the Kalishnikov Design Bureau in Moscow... Kalishnikov, and his team say... "Now, you make gun for Soviet Army, like this." Eighteen months later, the Russians have an assualt rifle, perhaps the best ever made (and most ever made)... the AK-47.

Look, the STG-44 ends up in the hands of the good guys in Star Wars.

Comparison pics...

This afternoon's lesson is over.

Later Brothers,

John

John's History Lesson has concluded.

Thank you, sir. Spot on lesson, too.

I'm in no way a war monger, but am equally interested in war history and military equipment, have been since I was a kid. I don't get the Military Channel, but always watch the WWII stuff on the History Channel.

[SethB6025]

Star Wars drew heavily on WW2 for visual inspiration. This only adds to the ability to relate and believe in what is happening. Lucas' use of archetypes and legends, along with stories that drew from real history are what make Star Wars what it is, and I think the real reason the second trilogy was generally weaker up until episode 3, due to the lack of clear analogies in ep1 &2.

[101radioman]

I have fired and carried the 34 and 42. These are incredible weapons.

Funny how they can be veiwed as evil just because the fact that it was the german forces that used them. What if the US and her allies had these not Germany? Would they be less evil?

These are just pieces of equipment not evil or good.

But I can tell ya they are hungry little buggers to feed. Not olny do the fire at incredible speed you need a small fortune to own, last i saw either for sale was 20,000 plus dollar range and thats before all the federal paperwork.

[SethB6025]

You can get a reproduction semi auto version in Canada for something like $3,000 or $5,000 (can't remember). A firing antique would surely get expensive though!

[TD2802]

The MG34 and 42 are also popular in some anime - most notably the 'Lone Wolf Jin Roh' series about an alternate history where the Axis win the war. In a totalitarian police state, Japan's security forces use such weapons as a result of heavy influence from their former ally who went on to defeat them in another war.

[Rolf]

I was in the army for about 16 years ago, for 11 month as a foot soldier.

My weapon there was a MG42, so i have fire many life ammos whit it.

Its a very scary weapon, fast and accurate.

As much as i think it was fun to shoot whit it, i was thinking what this gun could do to people.

I just hope there was more good people on this earth, so we dont have to make this crap to kill ower self whit.

I guess we never learn.

Me my self, only got the rubber sci-fire deal.

To throw at people .

Peace

[whitecommando]

Interesting how European countries used these weapons, especially the 42, for years upon years. But it was what it was... a machine gun that sounded like a grinder and not a ra-ta-ta-ta-ta-ta sound. It was an amazing machine, truly ahead of its time... look at the M-60 Machine gun... you can see the German heritage in it as well.

Anyway, the 42...

A beautiful instrument for killing. That is what weapons are made to do. Why does the U.S. have 12,000 nukes? To kill our enemies... whoever choose to attack us.

Fortunately, the Germans were slow to build and replace... AND, the had an army to their west (the U.S., British, vici-French) 10 times the size of their army, and an army to the east (the very angry Russians) more than 10 times the size of their army.

So, Germany has the whole world's might coming to their homeland through the fault of a a maniac man, and a small kernal of power in his NAZI party, where the majority of the German people would never have wished to experience the leveling of their cities, the sacrifice of nearly all of her sons, and the decades it took to overcome this war... and the humiliation.

I was in the army for about 16 years ago, for 11 month as a foot soldier.

My weapon there was a MG42, so i have fire many life ammos whit it.

Its a very scary weapon, fast and accurate.

As much as i think it was fun to shoot whit it, i was thinking what this gun could do to people.

I just hope there was more good people on this earth, so we dont have to make this crap to kill ower self whit.

I guess we never learn.

Me my self, only got the rubber sci-fire deal.

To throw at people .

Peace

[whitecommando]

I am selling my MG-34, so check the For Sale Section...

[SethB6025]

Not to deviate too much, but its funny how for the most part the countries who "lost" WWII like Germany & Japan re-focused on arts and culture and the countries who "won" like the U.S. and Russia focused on more ways to obliterate each other.