SethB6025 Posted March 15, 2007 Share Posted March 15, 2007 http://www.therpf.com/index.php?showtopic=126716 Go talk about it there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Defstartrooper Posted March 15, 2007 Share Posted March 15, 2007 I would but im not a member so i'll say my piece here It's a great looking helmet maybe its just me but i don't see the point of using HDPE unless you are going to do a bashed up aged look with the HDPE showing through. Surely once painted HDPE would look no different to painted ABS or HIPS ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daetrin Posted March 15, 2007 Share Posted March 15, 2007 Registration is open. It's quite nice that the bashing can take place there and keep these forums clean I can only speculate that at the time the originals were made vac-forming was still in its infancy and perhaps they were just experimenting? The reason to use it now is strictly based on trying to reproduce the original, no? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooter Posted March 15, 2007 Share Posted March 15, 2007 Thanks for posting the Link How long does it generally take for The RPF to reveiw your account before you can post? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gino Posted March 15, 2007 Share Posted March 15, 2007 Actually, I'm fairly certain that hdpe was originally used so that they could easily and without wasting a ton of split rejects, remove the pieces from the mold. On 50+ helmets and on a time constraint, you'd want something quick, flexible and durable at time of removal. Besides, the stunt style were originally INTENDED to be used for background shots anyways. Not close ups. Technically, we are using the word "stunt" in regards to trooper helmets incorrectly. A stunt piece is specifically meant for stunt work. What we should be calling them are background helmets or 'B' helmets and hero/closeup or 'A' helmets. I doubt there were any true 'stunt' helmets made for SW. Maybe armor though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Defstartrooper Posted March 15, 2007 Share Posted March 15, 2007 I can only speculate that at the time the originals were made vac-forming was still in its infancy and perhaps they were just experimenting? The reason to use it now is strictly based on trying to reproduce the original, no? Yep i can see that its an attempt to recreate the originals but like i say once painted you won't know what material it's made from. I just don't see that it can be a true reproduction of the original. People have already pointed out the difference between the material used and the material on the original for the face and cap/back and the difference in material used on the ears. Has anyone ever confirmed exactly what paint was used back in 76 ? I'ts a damned nice replica for sure but not a true reproduction. I'm no expert on these things is HDPE not readily available these days or something ? Why hasn't anyone done this before ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theGreatSot Posted March 16, 2007 Share Posted March 16, 2007 Registration is open. It's quite nice that the bashing can take place there and keep these forums clean Sorry to side-track, but... Speaking of the RPF and their accepting new registration... Is there a reason that they only accept users who have a valid ISP email address and not a free email such as yahoo or hotmail? I'd rather not have to pay for my email just so that I can log onto the RPF... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daetrin Posted March 16, 2007 Share Posted March 16, 2007 I just registered and got validated using a gmail account - so perhaps it's not a hard & fast rule? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Defstartrooper Posted March 16, 2007 Share Posted March 16, 2007 I had that problem too even though i pay for AOL i cant register with it because AOL also do free email. I even emailed the staff there to ask about this i didn't even get a response. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD-1536 Posted March 16, 2007 Share Posted March 16, 2007 Actually, I'm fairly certain that hdpe was originally used so that they could easily and without wasting a ton of split rejects, remove the pieces from the mold. On 50+ helmets and on a time constraint, you'd want something quick, flexible and durable at time of removal. Besides, the stunt style were originally INTENDED to be used for background shots anyways. Not close ups. Technically, we are using the word "stunt" in regards to trooper helmets incorrectly. A stunt piece is specifically meant for stunt work. What we should be calling them are background helmets or 'B' helmets and hero/closeup or 'A' helmets. I doubt there were any true 'stunt' helmets made for SW. Maybe armor though. Those are good observations, and good use of nomenclature. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wannab Posted March 16, 2007 Share Posted March 16, 2007 I used my Hotmail account with no problem. I also used the same ID I use here and on other boards -- maybe that come into play as well? Doug Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Defstartrooper Posted March 16, 2007 Share Posted March 16, 2007 I used my Hotmail account with no problem. I also used the same ID I use here and on other boards -- maybe that come into play as well? Doug Well the time in question when i wrote to the staff about my account not being approved i pointed out that i was a member of all these forums yet still got no reply Replica prop board The Prop den The propzone The 99th imperial garrison Knights of the empire Omega wing Blaster builders club After getting no reply from them i asked about and was told by people that the reason i wasnt verified was most probably because i was using a free email domain I have a private email now though got my account approved tonight hadn't realised registrations were open again so thanks for the heads up Daetrin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SethB6025 Posted March 16, 2007 Author Share Posted March 16, 2007 The "talk about it there" comment was a little tongue in cheek, you may feel free to talk about it here. RPF is super-paranoid about sock-puppet accounts so they say they disallow free emails. At times they also have a habit of editing and over-moderating quite a bit. We try to keep a balance here, it seems that if you allow people to speak their minds that the venom dissipates and you get more material discussion, albeit heated at times. Of course, it is a discussion board. On the helmet note, I was under the impression the production "rights" went along with "the" molds. While I'm not in the loop on personal deals (nor do I expect to be) I'd certainly hope that this info was known by the current owner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gino Posted March 16, 2007 Share Posted March 16, 2007 I can't count on one hand how many times Matt sold "rights" to people when he was supposed to have walked away afterward. Glad I got in on the ground floor to have obtained the ORIGINAL molds. Outside of Matt not honoring his deals and selling people recast molds, and other recasting scum, the only people who SHOULD have the ability to produce helmets/armor (non fx) is myself and GF/AP. That was how is was supposed to be. That is what people paid for loooong ago. Now, its such a cluster**** of incestual lineage, most people don't know the true histories, or the savy to distinguish between the nuances of 'makers'. I ask you, what would you do if you paid someone 5 figures for molds and "rights" and then they turned around and acquired recast items and started selling again? Then, made the same con to another and another. That's what it is, a con. They say a sucker is born every minute. Here's to no more suckers...hopefully. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BingoBongo_275 Posted March 16, 2007 Share Posted March 16, 2007 Interesting topic, here are my thoughts - nothing you wouldn’t expect History 1976. Everthings scheduled to be made in fiberglass, however with time and money running out after work concentrates on 3PO and Vader, some costumes are subbed out to Nick Pemberton (local known artist) starting with the stormtrooper helmet (clay moulds for armour already made) Nick Pemberton goes to Andrew Ainsworth (who's only a few DOORS down from him on “The Green” in Twickenham) who has a small factory designing and producing thermoplastic sports products, canoe helmets and other vac-formed stuff for the garden (like ponds). Pemberton gets him involved. AA gets non-committal "opportunity" to produce helmets. No contract. If he cocks it up then he doesnt get paid, hence he used whatever he has lying around the place (khaki Green HDPE used for the ponds), its very flexible and comes easily off the undercut of the moulds. They tried ABS but as Gino has said, it doesnt flex as well and they just cant get as good undercut unless theyre prepared to throw more away. Lack of time and the fact that theyre not paid for failures, results in the easy option of the HDPE, painted by AA using his car spray gear (powered from the same compressor as his VM machine) – remember he was a mad “kit car” man and produced parts for them too. My guess would therefore be automotive paint. Not sure who came up with the “Stunt” and “Hero” names, AA always referred to them as “Close-up” and “Background” helmets, and IIRC that’s how they were invoiced. New HDPE Helmet It looks nice, however as I’ve demonstrated it’s the wrong colour. Presumably people want to make a helmet up, paint it and then knock it about so the paint flecks off. Problem is that when it does, the wrong colour will be showing through and I don’t see the point to that! Trooper Master’s done a nice HDPE helmet is a more-accurate coloutr. I’d like to see that painted up and then the crap kicked out of it. The problem with finding the correct shade of HDPE is that in reality, its going to be a bespoke run by the plastics makers, and they wont produce less than a ton – hence its not realistic for a fan-made product. Over at Rebelscum, Jumpin Jax has been shilling the new helmet for Matt, also claiming that the original ears were Styrene, not ABS to try and further justify its accuracy. No proof, just “Matt says”. Playground stuff. “Rights” to Production Hmm, this is a grey area. Essentially I understand people believe that they have some “prop rights” to reproduce screen used items they themselves have had access to. Without this we simply wouldn’t have a hobby. I therefore can see how Matt might have once had some “rights” to reproduce TK helmets, given he bought one and recast it. HOWEVER I can never agree that Matt can on-sell his "rights" to whomever he chooses – and yet this is something he has done again and again and again. Basically his modus operandi is 1) He says “I’m quitting – going for good” 2) He sells his moulds for a significant sum, with “rights” for the buyer to reproduce 3) He waits a bit – then bitches about the new maker/deal/etc 4) He starts producing again and we go back to (1), again and again Since quitting for the “very last time” it now appears he has gone TWO runs, the Fiberglass and now the HDPE. I am not surprised if the people who bought his moulds are more than a little annoyed!! As far as whether Gino has more or less rights to make helmets than certain other people (say Meatsock), I would probably agree. However I think it’s a massive grey area and anyone manufacturing and also trying to police the hobby is clearly opening themselves up to suggestions of hypocrisy. That’s not a criticism – just an observation. I’d also add a few of names to that list of people who have “rights” to make helmets and armour, including AA, MR, TrooperMaster, Oakley etc. Also the guy who bought Matt’s moulds last time probably paid good money for them – so would feel he has as much “right” as anyone else. Apologies for rambling, carry on Cheers Jez Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clutch Posted March 16, 2007 Share Posted March 16, 2007 Interesting hypothesis Jez! I love reading stuff like this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BingoBongo_275 Posted March 16, 2007 Share Posted March 16, 2007 Thanks mate Although would point out that the majority of my post (such as the history) is now known fact. NP's involvement now seems to be one of the key areas in the LFL SDS case since it appears he was the bridge between them. Cheers Jez Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Andrews Posted March 16, 2007 Share Posted March 16, 2007 Jez, I would say you pretty well nailed it. The only thing I would add is that Matt loves to play the "this is the last run... AND ... there will only be a few made" so he can charge an extravegent amount for those that he sells when the truth is he will turn out as many as he can sell. I find it interesting that the trooper arena's greatest contributor is also its greatest and most corrupt nemisis. Matt and his ilk are a black cloud over this entire area of the prop community. What is the most sad is all the people who still look at Matt as a god and believe he can do no wrong, people who just want the props and do not care what hook or crook it requires to get them... people who are willing to stroke Matt's ego just for the crumbs from his table. I am not sure who is more pathetic, Matt or his loyal entourage. You would think by now the masses would be able to see for themselves what kind of person Matt is. He has lied about Gino and lied to Gino. He has lied about Jez. He has stolen from Dave and Gino in regard to the armor. He has stolen from GF in regard to the armor. He has stolen from Tony G in regard to the armor. He has lied about Andrew Ainsworth. He has presented his opinions and assumptions as unequivicable fact to the masses. IN my OPINION, those who still follow Matt are simply a kool-aid drinkers... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gino Posted March 16, 2007 Share Posted March 16, 2007 One thing I've noticed is that he goes from one board to another like a cancer, taking advantage of the non-informed for as long as possible until people shine a light on him. Then he gets banned and finds another board on which he can prey on people's ignorance. I used to think that about this forum when I first came here. Glad to know that most people here (at least I think) are not walking around with their eyes closed to this. Now there is a whole new crop, and a new playground unknowingly ready to swallow Matt's huge load. http://www.whitearmor.net/forums Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daetrin Posted March 16, 2007 Share Posted March 16, 2007 About the FISD boards: 1) I've been on the MEPD boards for about two years and seen the whole Matt drama played out, so I'm not unaware of the situation. 2) I have talked to the rest of the command staff (all of which are only TK's) about this issue and pointed them to some relevant links on this board so they can get some background on the subject as well. 3) We're certainly watching his posts like a hawk. As long as he behaves himself there's really no justification from banning him. Seth, Guns, and even you Gino have registered on the FISD boards as well. Even if for some reason us on the command team are all OOF, there are others watching what's going on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Andrews Posted March 16, 2007 Share Posted March 16, 2007 It is good to know that people are aware and watching. What an individual person decides to do is their decision to make. My only desire is that people are informed and know who/what they are dealing with. If they choose to smooze up to an individual like Matt knwoing the truth... well I guess that tells us what kind of person they are, but at least they can't claim ignorance. Thanks, Daetrin! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pen66 Posted March 16, 2007 Share Posted March 16, 2007 IN my OPINION, those who still follow Matt are simply a kool-aid drinkers... ...Pours myself a big glass of red kool-aid and gets in line behind...... Woohaa, what was I thinking. Although I have missed the "Drama Llama" on most of this since I am new to the whole armor differences, I am learning fast. Thanks Braks, Gino, Seth, Jez and everyone here for making sure we all have quality info on ANH and costuming in general. Not to change the topic and all but you guys really deserve a huge thanks. Everyone here does. Pulls out his MG-15 and the "Drama Llama" and kindly motions "Move Along" PS I think my sig says puts a nice view on this whole situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Andrews Posted March 16, 2007 Share Posted March 16, 2007 Thanks Braks, Gino, Seth, Jez and everyone here for making sure we all have quality info on ANH and costuming in general. Not to change the topic and all but you guys really deserve a huge thanks. Everyone here does. For whatever small part I have had to play, you are welcome, but the truth is, this is what a community like the MEPD is all about; sharing of information for the greater good of the group. In essence, if forums and prop communities came down to one word, SHARING, would be the word. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BingoBongo_275 Posted March 16, 2007 Share Posted March 16, 2007 eye, Braks has it SHARING And I'm happy that so many people are happy to share their information, understanding that its the only way we're going to get to the bottom of so many of the unknowns still out there. An example today, a valued member of this forum did several hours work, providing me with some new photos so I could update my site with Hi Def pics of some of the helmets from the OT. It doesnt necessarily take a grand gesture - just someone willing to share something they has with others out there. Compare this with so called "Experts" who cling to whatever information they have left - like its the only thing they have that makes them feel special. **** these guys will even make stuff up just to make it sounds like they have an inside track! Pen - Youre welcome mate. Awesome signature line you got there. Sort of thing we all should have above the shaving mirror so we can remind ourselves of the really important things every day. Cheers Jez Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD2802 Posted March 17, 2007 Share Posted March 17, 2007 Perhaps the ultimate success of any forum is the openness and sharing of info and expertise. This really builds det cohesion. Many of us with little time, money and skills would otherwise be excluded from the inner circle of self-proclaimed prop gods. Along the way we come up with our own adaptations and designs to improve the whole - kinda like open source code. Cyber-balkanization never benefits anyone and just an excuse for the flame wars I see on other boards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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