TD-352 Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 I guess my question amounts to this: How can the Legion approve TD designations to troopers who only have a BFG, pouches and a backpack? It seems to me that the Sandtroopers in ANH had all the articles required by the MEPD for deployment. (One or two may not have carried a BFG.) It amazes me that the Legion Council can absolutely rip some peoples costumes apart for not being accurate, then turn around and approve the TD designation for someone with less than half the things the Sandtroopers in the movie have. To me the Sandtrooper being dirty is the same as Vader wearing his cloak/cape, or a Scout wearing a cumberbun. Same with the other things like flat green lenses, ab plate, etc. In my opinion the Council should give current TDs 6 months to get up to MEPD standard, if by 6 months they are not up to standard revert them to TK status. I know some of you may not agrre with this, and thats cool. It is after all just my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hpdblues Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 Hello TK-352, This is how the 501st Legion Charter outlines the requirements granting a status for "TD": Quote. "To be posted as a Desert Trooper/Sandtrooper on 501st.com, a member must have: A Pauldron, Field Pack, and 1 other item from the following list: dirty armor modified armor (modified knee plate, abdomen, flat lenses, etc.) dewback prod/MG34/MG15/lewis gun or other similarly styled BFG ammo pouches" Unquote. Allow me to use this as an example. The case of the Legion vs. detachment (which MEPD falls under) is very similar to our federal government vs. state government. While federal laws may be broad and all encompassing, state laws may narrow the scope of some laws (as with the MEPD detachment having more requirements than the Legion). However, state laws can never supersede federal laws and so in the case of the Legion having broad requirements, the MEPD (detachment) can never supersede what the Legion requirements are but in order to be recognized as MEPD-deployed (read a little bit more canon/movie accurate) troopers who are interested in going that extra mile (or two) are welcome AND highly encouraged here. But the bottomline of the 501st is to have fun, bring enjoyment to children, participate in community activities and celebrate the SW characters whom ever you choose to represent. By only having a few requirements for being a "sandtrooper" the Legion is making it possible for more individuals to join the fun and still be "in character" albeit not as strict as MEPD would have it. Guns ePS: We here at Sandtrooper.net hold ourselves to a "higher standard". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caomhanach Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 ...besides, not all TD's in the film had back packs or pauldrons... but hey, like Guns said, it is supposed to be fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD-352 Posted December 13, 2005 Author Share Posted December 13, 2005 Oh I know its all about fun, charity events, and making kids smile. What I am saying is how can the Legion be so lax on Sandtrooper requirements yet so strict on others. And I agree as full fledged Sandtroopers(which I will be deployed soon.) we hold oursevles to a higher standard, much like the Pathfinders do. (Of which I am also.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD1009 Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 Our fledgling Sandtrooper squad is a reaction towards this. We give recruits 6 months from the time they want to join to get movie TD status. Dirt, ab, knee, pouch, and pauldron, no drop boxes or detonator. Everything else is optional. We also make appearing at, at least 2 charity troops a year, a requirement. There is a Sandtrooper in the movie (Docking Bay 94, last trooper in line) with no pack, pauldron or BFG so I think the Legion requirements are completely backwards. Then again there has been arguements about this in the past and that's why the MEPD and our squad exists, the legion wants to make TD a optional "accessories" costume for TK's and I doubt it's ever going to change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD-3150 Posted December 20, 2005 Share Posted December 20, 2005 Let's also remember that if we want to be the "most canon" TDs we need to have poorly molded, unsymetrical armor falling apart and mismatched like they did in ANH. Pretty much all of us have armor that is 500% better than that used in 1977. Striving to be the best is great.........within our detachment. I love the 501st as well, and have had nothing but great times at all the events I have participated in. I would not want to tarnish that by trying to limit any further the participation of those members that are doing great things within the organization. Now, I do agree with a set of minimum standards...anyone who knows me knows about the discussions we have had about some costumes. But we need to remember, The MEPD is a detachment......this is the "elite" of the sandtroopers. If we make the rest of the legion's standards equal with ours, then we cease to be "above and beyond"......Enjoy being elite, you have all earned it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMANavy Posted December 20, 2005 Share Posted December 20, 2005 Let's also remember that if we want to be the "most canon" TDs we need to have poorly molded, unsymetrical armor falling apart and mismatched like they did in ANH. Pretty much all of us have armor that is 500% better than that used in 1977. Striving to be the best is great.........within our detachment. Funny, alot fo us have that that correct/incorect armor, but then again we are the best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SethB6025 Posted December 20, 2005 Share Posted December 20, 2005 the legion wants to make TD a optional "accessories" costume for TK's and I doubt it's ever going to change.I know the odds of the legion smacking down the TD designation are slim to none, but if it ever came into serious discussion, it wouldn't hold water. There are clear armor differences, not just the "extras". It would surprise me if it ever came into serious discussion, though. As of late there seems to be progressively more emphasis on accuracy within the 501st at large. PS- Progress can be slow, but we've come a long way from Marco armor, and the "ten foot rule" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starkids1990 Posted December 25, 2005 Share Posted December 25, 2005 Well....serious discussion is going on right now on the main Legion board. Under costuming there is a poll for TD requirements: http://www.501stforums.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1810 While I would like to see all the requirements added to the Charter definition of a TD. I am specifically pushing the current standard with dirty armor added. I know, I know....there were different levels of dirt on the armor seen in ANH OT and the SE. But weathering is part of the costume same as a Boba. I hate going to a canon event and seeing a ton of pauldron wearing clean TK's calling themselves a TD. Then to hear the excuse..."I paid a lot of money for my armor and I don't want to weather it" or the "I want to have two costume designations but don't want to weather my armor because I can't attend a clean TK only event". Really.....I'm banned from attending certain LFL functions because I'm a straight out TD....MEPD level TD accurate at that. It is for fun I agree but why the double standard? I get kicked from certain events but "clean glow boys" get to wear a pauldron and call themselves a TD AND still go to events I'm not allowed to go to. Where is the fun in that!!? If the TD is a costume to itself then the Charter needs to reflect that and not make the TD a substandard costume under a TK! I worked too hard and too long on my armor to see the TD taken so litely when it is a visual seperate costume Canon to the movies. I would also like to see more TDs at Canon events. We are after all the connecting bridge from the EpIII clones to the ANH clean white troopers. Even the action figures "Evolution Set" shows that! Whew!!!! Sorry had to get that off my chest! *rant over* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMANavy Posted December 25, 2005 Share Posted December 25, 2005 I suport the larger differnece too. If some events want only clean tk's then whatever, if theyy ever want a TD then they will get the best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hpdblues Posted December 26, 2005 Share Posted December 26, 2005 Oh I know its all about fun, charity events, and making kids smile. What I am saying is how can the Legion be so lax on Sandtrooper requirements yet so strict on others. And I agree as full fledged Sandtroopers(which I will be deployed soon.) we hold oursevles to a higher standard, much like the Pathfinders do. (Of which I am also.) You should try swapping opinions with tk2427 on the Legion Board under the Costuming Forum! The Legion is just trying to accomodate as many interested fans as possible. You don't mention the types of costumes that you feel the Legion is so lax on. Not everyone is fortunate enough to be a member of the 501st. If someone is willing to spend a considerable amount of $$$ for a costume that meets the established requirements (as imperfect as they may be) well, happy days join the 501st! The LCO elections are scheduled in a couple of months. Now would be the time to voice your concerns via the Legion Boards. Guns Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hpdblues Posted December 26, 2005 Share Posted December 26, 2005 Well....serious discussion is going on right now on the main Legion board. Under costuming there is a poll for TD requirements: http://www.501stforums.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1810 While I would like to see all the requirements added to the Charter definition of a TD. I am specifically pushing the current standard with dirty armor added. I know, I know....there were different levels of dirt on the armor seen in ANH OT and the SE. But weathering is part of the costume same as a Boba. I hate going to a canon event and seeing a ton of pauldron wearing clean TK's calling themselves a TD. Then to hear the excuse..."I paid a lot of money for my armor and I don't want to weather it" or the "I want to have two costume designations but don't want to weather my armor because I can't attend a clean TK only event". Really.....I'm banned from attending certain LFL functions because I'm a straight out TD....MEPD level TD accurate at that. It is for fun I agree but why the double standard? I get kicked from certain events but "clean glow boys" get to wear a pauldron and call themselves a TD AND still go to events I'm not allowed to go to. Where is the fun in that!!? If the TD is a costume to itself then the Charter needs to reflect that and not make the TD a substandard costume under a TK! I worked too hard and too long on my armor to see the TD taken so litely when it is a visual seperate costume Canon to the movies. I would also like to see more TDs at Canon events. We are after all the connecting bridge from the EpIII clones to the ANH clean white troopers. Even the action figures "Evolution Set" shows that! Whew!!!! Sorry had to get that off my chest! *rant over* Holiday greetings Stacey, I spent the better part of my Christmas Day reading and re-reading the 501st Legion Board Costuming Forum. Just to let you know, I did vote in the poll initiated by tuskentrooper. I voted that "dirt" SHOULD be A requirement for Legion-level designation as a TD = sandtrooper I agree with you wholeheartedly that it does "pain" me seeing "squeaky-clean" troopers with a pauldron who claim to be a "TD". But that is the exact reason why WE exist here at MEPD. It does take a serious commitment to "dirty" that armor and be recognized as MEPD-Deployed (if the individual meets ALL MEPD requirements that is) I noticed that the individual making the most noise over at the Legion board costuming forum doesn't even carry a Legion TD designation. I believe that the Legion has left the requirements for the TK/TD affair "flexible" in order to allow prospective members the opportunity to join either as a TK or TD (meeting the minor requirements currently listed)... However, this is where (read this website) the "CREAM RISES TO THE TOP" when 501st members accept the challenge (to meet the standards listed here) and become MEPD-Deployed. Gotta get dirty baby! Guns ePS: The LCO elections are coming up. Time to voice your concerns to the Legion elders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starkids1990 Posted December 26, 2005 Share Posted December 26, 2005 Thanks Bro! Dirty troopers gotta stick together! When talking TD, it feel sometimes like Rodney Dangerfield....you know, "I don't get no respect!". I would love to see the Charter reflect more stringent guidelines to the TD definition. But, I will be satisfied to see dirty armor become one of the required components. This will be in keeping the MEPD the elite core of Sandtroopers. Did you realize we currently have 250 members listed with as Sandtrooper? Later, Stacey TKB.I.G. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hpdblues Posted December 26, 2005 Share Posted December 26, 2005 Stacey, I just had to comment on your inspirational post on the 501st Legion Board Forum about your ID #. IMPRESSIVE. Most impressive. Great to see a post like that! I adopted Ephesians 6:10 when I got my TE sandtrooper armor! As far as sandtroopers vs. stormtroopers, I remember seeing a post earlier this year about an event where JUST sandtroopers were welcome! I think that sandtroopers are slowly gaining the respect of fans AND fellow troopers. Keep your head high amigo! You have chosen a road that many dare not take. You accepted the challenge and became a SANDTROOPER. You'll always be welcome here. Take care. Happy holydays my friend! Guns Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starkids1990 Posted December 26, 2005 Share Posted December 26, 2005 Thanks Bro! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daetrin Posted December 26, 2005 Share Posted December 26, 2005 But, I will be satisfied to see dirty armor become one of the required components. I've read and posted on both boards, and it seems to me the single biggest issue revolves around dirt/no dirt. It seems to me that if dirt were made a 501st TD requirement than most of the ruckus would go away, regardless of what else is required in terms of mods. I think if making dirt required were the only change, that would be enough. As pointed out many times, tempura is easily removed. I suspect that the biggest objections to dirt are raised only by those who have never tried it, and it's the fear of the unknown that is scaring them away for allowing it to be approved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caomhanach Posted December 26, 2005 Share Posted December 26, 2005 Yep, we are a bunch of dirty troopers, and proud of it... Hopefully, the minimum change to the TD requirements will be the addition of dirt. This appears to be way the poll is going... It unofficial I know, but hopefully the Legion Command staff will take note. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SethB6025 Posted December 27, 2005 Share Posted December 27, 2005 In regards to the Legion requirements, it's about baby steps. We upped the ante last year a bit, and hopefully we can do the same this year. If you haven't already, please vote on the poll at the legion board, and maybe we can raise the bar for legion TD. Meanwhile, we have the MEPD! Rock on you dirty buggers! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bamatrooper Posted December 27, 2005 Share Posted December 27, 2005 this is a very old arument... x Last time, a compromise was reached via a poll on the old legion HQ yahoo group.. maybe back in 2003?? The current charter requirements are the result of that entire membership vote on the subject... When we resurrected the MEPD, sandtrooper Detachment we tried very hard to make dirt a requirement for membership.. however, the legion membership still begged for a compromise, so we have allowances for clean troopers also, ie deployed troops for the dirt etc..... I myself was a clean sandtrooper for over a year when i first joined the 501st, then in 2003 i went dirty and haven't regretted it at all. I have walked both sides of this issue personally, and I feel we need to have dirt as a requirement for TD designations... A clean trooper with sandtrooper accessories is a 'custom' TK in my opinion. Still OK to troop with us ( like our custom fetts and all) but i don't see the reason to give them a designation because of it. Weathering is part of the costume/character.. even LFL does not allow us to bring clean troopers wearing sandtrooper accessories to thier events. You can still be a clean TK and wear sandtrooper accessories, and troop with all your pals inthe 501st and have a good time, but the 2-3 times year that canon events are called, you need to drop the extra gear and troop as a TK.. Thus you have the best of both worlds... you don't need a TD designation to have that... why push the issue? -Joey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hpdblues Posted December 27, 2005 Share Posted December 27, 2005 Yeah, The boss has spoken!!!! You want MEPD go dirty, otherwise ya ride the fence and have the best of both worlds...easy. Guns Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD2802 Posted December 27, 2005 Share Posted December 27, 2005 Someone should do a new MEPD t-shirt that says 'got dirt?' or something similar to reinforce the issue Thought there was a run somewhere a while back on another board but I could be wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hpdblues Posted December 28, 2005 Share Posted December 28, 2005 Someone should do a new MEPD t-shirt that says 'got dirt?' or something similar to reinforce the issue Thought there was a run somewhere a while back on another board but I could be wrong. What about this? Guns ePS: Teenage daughter NOT INCLUDED! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD2802 Posted December 28, 2005 Share Posted December 28, 2005 Yeah Guns, dat da one!! Should be our dress down civvy attire Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hpdblues Posted December 28, 2005 Share Posted December 28, 2005 Yeah Guns, dat da one!! Should be our dress down civvy attire Hey bro, What size tee shirt do you wear? I MIGHT have an extra one! LMK. Guns Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD2802 Posted December 28, 2005 Share Posted December 28, 2005 Yeah Guns, dat da one!! Should be our dress down civvy attire Hey bro, What size tee shirt do you wear? I MIGHT have an extra one! LMK. Guns PM sent (about the shirt of course) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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