Dirty D Posted September 15, 2009 Share Posted September 15, 2009 Hi guys, I can't be sure if this has been covered before but I'm bringing it up. In the 'requirements' section it states - Flat rectangular detail, with smaller horizontally oriented rectangle centered on width, and towards the top of the larger rectangle, on abdominal plate. (On stormtroopers this is the "buttons & ridges" part). as one of the requirements. I'm wondering why this is the case. Here's a movie screenshot with sandtrooper sporting buttons and ridges He also has "drop boxes" hanging from his belt. - No "drop boxes" (small rectangular parts attached to stormtrooper's belts, above the thigh). Don't these screen appearances make it canon? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dutchy Posted September 15, 2009 Share Posted September 15, 2009 These CGI troopers from the special edition don't really qualify as real sandtroopers. Just for the simple reasons you just mentioned. But good that you noticed it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirty D Posted September 15, 2009 Author Share Posted September 15, 2009 These CGI troopers from the special edition don't really qualify as real sandtroopers. Just for the simple reasons you just mentioned. But good that you noticed it I think it's quiet amusing that George had been waiting for years for the right technology to come along so that he could put these scenes in the movie and when he finally got the chance, there where sandtroopers included that didn't exactly match all previous versions of them. But then again, the other two guys in the background seem to fit normal sandtrooper standards. At least I don't see dropboxes on the one guy. So, it could've been intentional too. Oh and now that I've seen your signature, that brings up the point of grey pauldrons. - Pauldron (Black, Orange, or White) made from vinyl or leather. Gray is not acceptable, as it is not canon. I think George wanted grey pauldrons or it wouldn't have been added right? Hope noone takes me wrong thinking I'm nagging or something but are we just ignoring the special edition scenes like they never happened. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonboy2312 Posted September 15, 2009 Share Posted September 15, 2009 Actually, the new guys are not CGI, they're actors. But they're still VERY different from the original sandtroopers due to them wearing what's essentially ROTJ armor and helmets (from another batch of these made in the nineties just for the Special Edition and its promo material) The little control panel on the ab plate is upside-down and missing the raised area it's supposed to be on, the armor panels have a lip around them, the helmets are squished and deformed, with black frowns and bubble lenses, etc... The pauldrons are also completely different, as are the backpacks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirty D Posted September 15, 2009 Author Share Posted September 15, 2009 Actually, the new guys are not CGI, they're actors. But they're still VERY different from the original sandtroopers due to them wearing what's essentially ROTJ armor and helmets (from another batch of these made in the nineties just for the Special Edition and its promo material) The little control panel on the ab plate is upside-down and missing the raised area it's supposed to be on, the armor panels have a lip around them, the helmets are squished and deformed, with black frowns and bubble lenses, etc... The pauldrons are also completely different, as are the backpacks. Cool to know Jonboy *thumbsup* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordonator Posted September 15, 2009 Share Posted September 15, 2009 in my opinion, the special edition backpacks looks terrible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dutchy Posted September 15, 2009 Share Posted September 15, 2009 The white and the black pauldrons tend to look like if they are grey, but this is all caused by the weathering.. To get back to the SE troopers, they look like the real deal but they miss / lack the bear essentials that makes the sandtrooper so much different from the TK or HWT,therefore the troopers the troopers in the SE qualify more for a HWT then a TD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tube Posted September 15, 2009 Share Posted September 15, 2009 George could have saved himself a lot of time, money and effort by just hiring a squad or two from the MEPD... They'd have looked a lot better than those Dewback manure-smeared ROTJ phonies... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caomhanach Posted September 15, 2009 Share Posted September 15, 2009 ...but it still brings up a point that as it is in the film, albeit the SE version, it IS Canon... So why is it completely disregarded by the MEPD? To say the SE trooper is not a true character would eliminate the SE version of Boba (ROTJ armor w/ ESB bucket) which is accepted (I think )... Also to say they're CGI would eliminate most of the clones, no Cpt Rex (cartoon) or anything that was not in the original movies as they're not real actors... I think that maybe SE Troopers should be accepted, discouraged yes, but accepted... Just because we don't like it doesn't mean it doesn't exist or we should ignore it by burying our heads in the Tatooine sands... Are we ignoring the films just because it doesn't agree to our interpretation of what a Sandtrooper should be? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirty D Posted September 15, 2009 Author Share Posted September 15, 2009 ...but it still brings up a point that as it is in the film, albeit the SE version, it IS Canon... So why is it completely disregarded by the MEPD? To say the SE trooper is not a true character would eliminate the SE version of Boba (ROTJ armor w/ ESB bucket) which is accepted (I think )... Also to say they're CGI would eliminate most of the clones, no Cpt Rex (cartoon) or anything that was not in the original movies as they're not real actors... I think that maybe SE Troopers should be accepted, discouraged yes, but accepted... Just because we don't like it doesn't mean it doesn't exist or we should ignore it by burying our heads in the Tatooine sands... Are we ignoring the films just because it doesn't agree to our interpretation of what a Sandtrooper should be? While I respect all of the answers so far, Caomhanach's reply seems to be the most reasonable response. The Star Wars universe may be a special thing that belongs to all of us but it is primarily George Lucas' world and I think it'd be more of an honor to him if we accept all of his work, even the stuff that we don't completely agree with it or would've done it differently. Again, I feel the need to explain that I mean to stir no trouble but being totally interested in 501st / MEPD, I wanted to get a feel for the way things work here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caomhanach Posted September 15, 2009 Share Posted September 15, 2009 Again, I feel the need to explain that I mean to stir no trouble... Don't worry, there's enough of us around to do that for you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirty D Posted September 15, 2009 Author Share Posted September 15, 2009 Don't worry, there's enough of us around to do that for you haha! Well at least this seems to be a good natured forum so far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iconoclasta_88 Posted September 15, 2009 Share Posted September 15, 2009 Hey JsunDmint, welcome to the MEPD... Ill try to answer you... I might not be the right person to answer this but here is my opinion, based on what I know about the MEPD. We know that there are a few ways in which a TD were portrait in the films. Different weapon configuration, continuity mistakes, prop damage and the infamous SE. While we are inspired by SW and George Lucas Work, we are not part of LFL. Therefore, I do feel like we are not obliged to mimic or do absolutly everything he has showed in the screen... (Actually, most not screen used LFL costumes are far less accurate than ours). The MEPD is part of a costuming club inspired by SW, but has its own rules and agenda. As part of the club, the MEPD has also its own rules, being these lot more strict and aim towards perfection in the portraying of TDs. A a detachment, I guess we are entitled of making our own rules and deciding what is accepted and what is not accepted by our standards. So, somewhere in the way, it was decided that this detachment would look for perfection and grant the deployed status to people whose armor represented what was felt at that moment as the perfect image of a TD (being these characteristics described in the requirements). You are encourage to do the necessary modifications to your armor to meet these requirements if you want to have the deployed status granted. But in no way you need to do it if you feel like your TD armor should meet other requirements or be inspired by other troopers in the SW universe. If you choose not to meet requirements, you still can have your TD designation and even be part of the MEPD (as long as you meet the Legion TD requirements), but wont be granted the deployed status. The 501st is a club, and these are the rules of a detachment of that club, anyway, they might change in the future or just stay as they are. Its up to the members really. But either way, you are more than welcome to learn, share and have fun over here. As a TD, as a guest or as deployed officer, you will always be welcome... Is this right? This is what I think anyway, and how I understand how detachments and the legion works. Hope it helps. Saludos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirty D Posted September 15, 2009 Author Share Posted September 15, 2009 Hey thanks for the in-depth reply Juan. I enjoyed reading and even feel somewhat enlightened as to the views around here. If your reply is basically the overall view of the members here, then it's definitely a great club of folks to be around. I feel better anyway after reading it because now I know that the primary purpose here is to unite in celebrating a timeless classic. I will most likely strive a bit harder to reach deployed status too. Thanks guys Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonboy2312 Posted September 15, 2009 Share Posted September 15, 2009 Just one little observation... Making an SE sandtrooper is actually HARDER than making a classic one. You'd have to add that lip around major armor panels, you'd have to completely redo the abdomen plate (it's more than just installing the control panel upside down), make a custom, larger buttplate (and make it one piece with the kidney plate), you'd need to heatgun and reshape the shoulder bells, and lastly, you'd need a ROTJ helmet, which is a lot narrower than normal and quite hard to find... And in the end, many people would still frown at all that hard work due to the general dislike for the SE sandies Oh, and Tube, that's a great idea about Lucas hiring the MEPD, but there's one problem. I don't think it existed back then, and the best armor the 501st had was FX. That would have been even worse... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slave1pilot Posted September 15, 2009 Share Posted September 15, 2009 and the best armor the 501st had was FX. That would have been even worse...HEY!!! I have FX armor & I think my TD looks better than the SE ones shown above. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonboy2312 Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 HEY!!! I have FX armor & I think my TD looks better than the SE ones shown above. No doubt a well constructed, detailed and weathered FX, with correct accessories, will look better than what they slapped together for the extended SE scene. Yours is a great example of that - I love your weathering, your accurate pouches and accessories complete the suit beautifully, and with a decent helmet like your MR it simply looks GREAT. But we didn't have these helmets back in mid-nineties, so my point still stands Our knowledge of sandies was still pretty poor back then... we'd probably have TK kneeplates, dropboxes and belly panels. So we would still have ended up a bit worse than LFL's effort, i think. This is not the topic of the thread, though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lufo1138 Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 Actually the sandtrooper on the dewback is CG, and it looks worse even than the two actors in the modified ROTJ trooper armor in the foreground. It is so hideously bad, both modeling and animation. I don't think there are any rules against doing SE sandtroopers or any pressure here not to do them or consider them canon. I think some people have tried to do SE. In fact, if you want to take the SE version to the extreme, there were CG sandtroopers in Mos Eisley with no backpacks or pouches or weathering at all hanging around in the streets. They are just plain stormtroopers. So technically you could do sandtrooper with a plain vanilla ROTJ style suit if you really wanted and still be "screen accurate." But, come on... the original 1977 version of the sandtrooper is the coolest version that exists. Plain and simple. I think that's why they are the main focus of what people strive for here. It's certainly why I do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirty D Posted September 16, 2009 Author Share Posted September 16, 2009 the original 1977 version is just about the coolest version that exists. Why bother with anything other than the coolest? Would be hard for anyone to disagree with that Lufo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caomhanach Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 I don't think there are any rules against doing SE sandtroopers or any pressure here not to do them or consider them canon. That isn't the case though as the deployment requirements basically disregard the SE trooper completely... So if anyone wishes to be a Deployed SE Trooper they cannot so we are pushing them into the original style of sandtrooper... In truth this is also something that should have been addressed already... For those who have 501st access I present 'exhibit A' to the case of the prosecition your honour... http://forum.mepd.net/index.php?showtopic=2338 This is a poll asking should the SE Trooper have deployment standard? We are the Sandtrooper Detachment of the 501st, for our entire history we have disregarded the SE troopers. While this design is not very popular, we felt that it should be added to our Deployment set should the group vote in favor of it. This would create two sets of guidelines, one for the OT fully equipped Sandtrooper, and one for the OT Sandtrooper exactly how it is shown in the film. The guidelines would be equally strict in comparison to the OT guidelines, and would be established for those specifically interested in replicating all the details of the SE trooper, just as we have historically done with the OT trooper. A separate gallery page would also be created, one for OT and one for SE deployments. Cast your vote, and let your voice be heard. The vote will last for 30 days. The poll approved the motion by 58% to 40% (2% voted otherwise)... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slave1pilot Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 No doubt a well constructed, detailed and weathered FX, with correct accessories, will look better than what they slapped together for the extended SE scene. Yours is a great example of that - I love your weathering, your accurate pouches and accessories complete the suit beautifully, and with a decent helmet like your MR it simply looks GREAT. But we didn't have these helmets back in mid-nineties, so my point still stands Our knowledge of sandies was still pretty poor back then... we'd probably have TK kneeplates, dropboxes and belly panels. So we would still have ended up a bit worse than LFL's effort, i think. This is not the topic of the thread, though Oops! sorry about that i forgot the smiley on my post to show I was being sarcastic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirty D Posted September 16, 2009 Author Share Posted September 16, 2009 That isn't the case though as the deployment requirements basically disregard the SE trooper completely... So if anyone wishes to be a Deployed SE Trooper they cannot so we are pushing them into the original style of sandtrooper... In truth this is also something that should have been addressed already... For those who have 501st access I present 'exhibit A' to the case of the prosecition your honour... http://forum.mepd.net/index.php?showtopic=2338 This is a poll asking should the SE Trooper have deployment standard? The poll approved the motion by 58% to 40% (2% voted otherwise)... I don't have the 501st access yet so I didn't see the link but I could see the poll results you shared. I wonder if maybe this hasn't been applied to the deployment Requirements yet due to the amount of work involved in fixing up a set of rules for it. It would make more since to include them though in my opinion as long as the requirements on being screen accurate where just as rigorous. It could be that someone out there is sitting on an ROTJ bucket and really wanting to become a sandie but can't afford a complete new set. The SE would suit them aye? And we'd be one more brother heavier Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caomhanach Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 I don't have the 501st access yet so I didn't see the link but I could see the poll results you shared. I wonder if maybe this hasn't been applied to the deployment Requirements yet due to the amount of work involved in fixing up a set of rules for it. It would make more since to include them though in my opinion as long as the requirements on being screen accurate where just as rigorous. It could be that someone out there is sitting on an ROTJ bucket and really wanting to become a sandie but can't afford a complete new set. The SE would suit them aye? And we'd be one more brother heavier The last post in that thread... Dated Mar 2007... Well, I guess that is that. When I get some more time I'll draft a SE version guide like we have now. I would like to hear from anyone who is actively pursuing this configuration, so if you know anyone have them drop me a line. It would be nice to know that someone would actually want to do it if we're going to go to the trouble of doing work for it. The person who said that was a former DL in the MEPD who is no longer active on these boards... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirty D Posted September 16, 2009 Author Share Posted September 16, 2009 The person who said that was a former DL in the MEPD who is no longer active on these boards... Well, that sums it up. You know, I suppose a forum moderator could add a small note to the current Deployment Requirement saying that "If anyone is interested in actively pursuing a SE sandtrooper, please send a pm so we can work out regulations." That way noone will have to bother with the work unless it's needed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD-1536 Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 I have no problem adding a unique section of deployment for anyone that wants to do an SE trooper, I've just never seen one. Like has been mentioned, I believe making an accurate SE trooper is indeed harder than the original ANH troopers. But if anyone wants to do it and shoot for deployment, I'm all ears. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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