Vadersf15t Posted February 23, 2008 Share Posted February 23, 2008 lately i have seen A LOT of talk concerning two different prop makers obtaining licenses and I've not commented nor said a word because i feel it best to wait to see the finished product (i was one of those guys with the Rubies Darth Vader and i now know what it means to be cautious and wait). In addition i have read the posts on FX being improved and to me if there are improved sets of armor out there i think thats awesome. but i do have some questions that i owuld like to know: I would like to know that if FX helmets are discontinued or a newer more accurate one is made, how will it affect those who are deployed? and how will it affect those who are not deployed but are registered TDs (such as myself)? In conjunction with that question, does the answer apply to the armor as a whole? Please understand i am not doing this to stir up any bantha poo but im just curious, and the answer plays a serious role in some economical problems i am having as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daetrin Posted February 23, 2008 Share Posted February 23, 2008 I can say that FISD is conducting a poll right now on whether or not to ban FX helmets (not armor, just helmets) from Elite. When I ran the poll 10 months ago 80% said to keep FX, now it's about 10% (3 out of 30 votes). I'd be quite amazed to see FX helmets being accepted here for deployment very much longer. FX armor OTOH, will last for a while longer at least. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD-1536 Posted February 24, 2008 Share Posted February 24, 2008 Paul is correct. The FX helmet really needs to go. It's been a polarizing issue for years now, but I think we're at the point where if we want to continue to up our standards and truly be movie accurate, an FX helmet may not be acceptable for deployment. It does not mean you can't join the Legion, however. The MEPD command staff has already discussed this and will probably make a sweeping decision together with the FISD board soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vadersf15t Posted February 24, 2008 Author Share Posted February 24, 2008 very interesting... if possible can we launch a poll here as well because i think if the FISD cracks down on the helmet that (even though i own one myself and kind of hate the idea of selling or getting rid of it) we should crack down too. But as far as the armor goes, we can still stick to it and not worry too much about upgrading yet?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott M. Posted February 24, 2008 Share Posted February 24, 2008 Keep in mind, our poll has to do with Elite standards, not general acceptance. I think we can try to educate, but it will be hard to force the FX issue on 501st acceptance until the CRL is more up to date. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD-1536 Posted February 24, 2008 Share Posted February 24, 2008 ...But as far as the armor goes, we can still stick to it and not worry too much about upgrading yet?? Armor would be fine. Helmet would not. I personally enjoyed trooping in my FX armor with an RT helmet quite a lot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daetrin Posted February 24, 2008 Share Posted February 24, 2008 And my TD is still and FX with an AP bucket. Wore it to the Rose Parade too - it will kill me to get rid of it some day as it fits like a glove. Kinda like my personal spidey suit. And yes, it's days are number - probably replaced this year before the deluge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
runJEDIrun Posted February 24, 2008 Share Posted February 24, 2008 Yeah.. the FX is just doesnt cut it when it comes to accuracy. I hope they eventually won't allow it in the 501st. The thing that seems weird to me is that i got my first complete FX for just a couple hundred less than i got my AP armor kit and the differences between the FX and AP are vast! (mind you i consider this a mistake on my part). You and I know that AP isn't TE, but man it looks so much better than FX. I think that if people are serious about being in the MEPD and 501st in general they should wait one more paycheck and spend the extra $200 for really nice armor. At the very least get an AP or better helmet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mediaguypj Posted February 24, 2008 Share Posted February 24, 2008 However. If you are over 200 pounds you look bad in TE armor its just too small. I think that armor needs to be proportional to your frame. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daetrin Posted February 24, 2008 Share Posted February 24, 2008 CMANavy who at 6'4" and 265lbs got a set of TE armor to fit him. I guess it depends on where those 200 pounds are. Actually I've compared my TE2 and FX and aside from the chest/back many of the dimensions are the same or very similar, just different in the contours. So what I'm trying to say is that it's not entirely true to say that FX is for "big" guys. It really depends on where you're big. For instance, the FX shins are just a little better for taller folks, but again, aside form the chest/back I didn't find any real difference between makes. Look - I'm not trying to bash FX per se here as I have a set myself and like it - just trying to dispel some myths. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Groz Posted February 24, 2008 Share Posted February 24, 2008 would some 1 pm me some contact info on the armor makers i was thinking about goin with an r/t bucket and fx armor im about 6'1 and 240 rite now, but will be back down to around 215 as soon as i can get some activity goin after my knee surgery Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freakengine Posted February 24, 2008 Share Posted February 24, 2008 I guess it depends on where those 200 pounds are. That's really true. I have muscular calves and I even had to shim the FX calf pieces. The trouble is that there's not a one stop armor shop where you can go and try on different makes. You have to kinda check out what other guys have but their suits have been fitted for them. It's not always a fair comparison. The one resource I'd love to see one day is a comprehensive comparison between the available suits. Not just a couple of pics, but measurements and critiques. As it stands now, I'm sticking with the FX suit because I can't afford to make an expensive mistake. I have a TM helmet, but only troop in it on occasion because I can't wear my glasses under it like the FX. I'm looking into some kendo glasses to wear under my kendo men, so maybe those can be used under the helmet as well. I guess I just have to face the fact that at 6-3, 220# I'm not a screen-accurate trooper. I don't really want to but if I wanna be screen-accurate I may just have to switch to Vader. Bummer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freakengine Posted February 24, 2008 Share Posted February 24, 2008 would some 1 pm me some contact info on the armor makers i was thinking about goin with an r/t bucket and fx armor im about 6'1 and 240 rite now, but will be back down to around 215 as soon as i can get some activity goin after my knee surgery PM sent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Groz Posted February 24, 2008 Share Posted February 24, 2008 thanks guy . sorry didnt mean to hijack the thread Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motman241 Posted February 25, 2008 Share Posted February 25, 2008 Well, I guess it would go to show that the older troops left out with no repair parts or replacement armor, would still be sporting the old style gear, aka FX armor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daetrin Posted February 25, 2008 Share Posted February 25, 2008 Hey Groz, I said I'd email them but might as well post them so you can see the knee gap. I'm 6'0" 180lbs. Here are pix of me in my FX http://www.hoeffer.com/images/fxte/fx1.jpg http://www.hoeffer.com/images/fxte/fx2.jpg http://www.hoeffer.com/images/fxte/fx3.jpg http://www.hoeffer.com/images/fxte/fx4.jpg http://www.hoeffer.com/images/fxte/fx5.jpg http://www.hoeffer.com/images/fxte/fx6.jpg http://www.hoeffer.com/images/fxte/fx7.jpg And for comparison the TE2 http://www.hoeffer.com/images/fxte/te2-1.jpg http://www.hoeffer.com/images/fxte/te2-2.jpg A good side by side: I need to lower the ammo belt on the TE2 by 1/4" still, which will close that gap a bit, but as you can see there's almost no difference. Left is FX + AP bucket. Right is TE2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Groz Posted February 25, 2008 Share Posted February 25, 2008 thanks for posting those Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daetrin Posted February 25, 2008 Share Posted February 25, 2008 You know, looking at these photos one thing that strikes me is that even at 6'0" the FX chest is just massive. If I keep the FX I'd really want to replace that chest/back with RT. Talk about franken-armor then (RT/AP/FX) But it seems that's really the way to go as no one suit is perfect (though the TE2 fits pretty perfect except my legs are a little long). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED209 Posted February 25, 2008 Share Posted February 25, 2008 Yeah.. the FX is just doesnt cut it when it comes to accuracy. I hope they eventually won't allow it in the 501st. The thing that seems weird to me is that i got my first complete FX for just a couple hundred less than i got my AP armor kit and the differences between the FX and AP are vast! (mind you i consider this a mistake on my part). You and I know that AP isn't TE, but man it looks so much better than FX. I think that if people are serious about being in the MEPD and 501st in general they should wait one more paycheck and spend the extra $200 for really nice armor. At the very least get an AP or better helmet. I'm still fairly new to all this, but after reading all these comments both here and on FISD, I felt I should give my .02. Back when I was a kid, I saw Star Wars for the first time and instantly was amazed by the Stormtroopers in the opening scenes. They had the coolest costumes I'd ever seen. Years later, I still loved the costume and always dreamt that it would be so cool to own one, but never thought it'd be possible. Then, I saw the parody film called "Troops", which resparked my interest. After reading up on the production though, I learned that each player in the film made their own armor, so again I figured I was out of luck. I pretty much gave up on the idea. Not long ago though, I saw members from the 501st doing a promotion where I work. I was so excited to see a costume up close, that I stopped my car and got out to shoot some photos. While doing so, I talked to some of the guys and learned about the various kits that were out there. That started the hunt. Halloween came not too long after and I found a Rubies helmet at a costume shop, so I bought it for $30. For me, it was a first step in putting some armor together. Now, at the time I was married and had kids. Money was tight, so I couldn't justify spending over $1,000 on simply a costume; my wife would've killed me. I found one guy though that had an FX kit for a little over $500, so I did some photoshoots on the side and earned enough to buy it (it of course stayed hidden in its box in a closet for almost a year for fear of "The Wrath"). When I looked at the helmet, I was in awe by its detail and thought it looked far better than the rubies helmet. I thought I was set, but after finding THIS site, I learned WAY more than I ever thought I would about helmets and armor. I looked at all the variations and decided that I in fact wanted a more accurate helmet, but again money was concern since at this point, I was moving out and looking at a divorce (Good news is, I finally got to start putting the armor together. "Well, see ya' honey...gotta' run" ). Fast forward a bit to the present, and now, I finally have new, accurate helmet. Love it, think it's the best. Can't wait to finally put everything together and get out there. You'd be amazed at how much I got it for too! With all that said, I'd like for the die-hard troops out there to keep in mind that not everybody is as passionate about screen accuracy as you might be. When I look at the photos I took of the 501st guys now, I realize that they were ALL wearing FX helmets. It didn't matter to me though, because I, being uninformed, still thought they looked amazing. So did the hundreds of bystanders that kept wanting to take photos with them. I love the fact that there are more accurate pieces out there. Doesn't mean that I'm going to throw down $1200 for a single helmet though. I also admire the way some of you guys shoot for complete accuracy (Mike and Seth come to mind) in your own armor. It gives me something to shoot for, but I'll still be happy with what I got and make look as close to accurate as possible, while still maintaining my budget. In all honesty, if the 501st required 100% accurate, costly armor, I never would've bothered with all this. I would've given up and just admired from the sidelines. Kids and fans out there don't care if it's FX, or Don Post, or Rubies, or TE, or whatever. Aren't THEY what's most important about this group? I can see it if Lucasfilm is doing a promotion and wants highly accurate armor for it, but for the general masses...I say live and let live. Don't kill the dream by making it about "fitting in". Star Wars is for everybody, that's why its costumes still have an impact even after 30 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD-1536 Posted February 25, 2008 Share Posted February 25, 2008 ...With all that said, I'd like for the die-hard troops out there to keep in mind that not everybody is as passionate about screen accuracy as you might be. When I look at the photos I took of the 501st guys now, I realize that they were ALL wearing FX helmets. It didn't matter to me though, because I, being uninformed, still thought they looked amazing. So did the hundreds of bystanders that kept wanting to take photos with them. Notes well taken. I highly doubt the 501st would ever ban the FX, so that should never concern anyone. For the purpose of this discussion though, we're aiming for accuracy, with a further "Deployed Status" given to those who strive for that level. You don't have to work to that level of commitment, but it's there for folks who wants everything to be accurate. We in no way discriminate between FX troops and everything else. The simple fact is, one is more accurate than the another and it all comes down to personal choice. You can choose to buy an FX suit and call it a day, or you can really immerse yourself in the hobby, work harder and take your skills and commitment to a higher level. This is_first and foremost_a costuming club. We strive to make our costumes as good as we can, given our personal levels of commitment. Being "good enough" for basic trooping in the Legion wearing FX armor, is fine. Like you said, most of the public can't tell the difference anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motman241 Posted February 26, 2008 Share Posted February 26, 2008 You can choose to buy an FX suit and call it a day, or you can really immerse yourself in the hobby, work harder and take your skills and commitment to a higher level.Gotta stop you right there. It's about money and time. I bought my FX armor almost 9 years ago, and cost more than $700. And that was the cheap armor, compared to the other maker/s (which I didn't even know about, then. Armor makers were very 'underground' at that early stage.) My armor fits well, looks good, and functions as it should. I frankly don't have the dough to shell out and start all over again. I'd love nothing more than to build another set of armor, but that just isn't gonna happen. Immersing yourself in the hobby, working hard, and taking your skills and commitment to a higher level have nothing to do with what manufacturer you choose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD-1536 Posted February 26, 2008 Share Posted February 26, 2008 Immersing yourself in the hobby, working hard, and taking your skills and commitment to a higher level have nothing to do with what manufacturer you choose. Actually, they do. An FX kit can be put together in a weekend if you follow the included instructions. But a TE suit has no such instructions and leaves a lot open to interpretation... it requires more work and investigation. More trimming, more open-ended questions to correct assembly. Even the instructions that come with a AP suit are not all that great. The three or four suits I assembled for folks, I just threw them out. This hobby is expensive no matter how you dice it, be it an FX kit or AP or TE. I paid $600 for a FX in 2004 and $800 for a TE in 2005. Then you have all the other tools, glues, boots, undersuit, etc. It all adds up. From personal experience, an FX was the easiest to assemble, a TE and AP were the next step up and a Clone was on the farthest end of difficult. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motman241 Posted February 26, 2008 Share Posted February 26, 2008 An FX kit can be put together in a weekend if you follow the included instructions. But a TE suit has no such instructions.... Even the instructions that come with a AP suit are not all that great.That's kinda my point - making anything look good is what takes the hard work knowledge, skill, and patience. If nothing else, making a bad suit look good takes more work than making a great suit look decent. It's that homework, love of the art, skill and drive that let us turn piles of white plastic (no matter the manufacturer) into what we call sandtrooper armor. Greater skill, a better love for Star Wars, more commitment? No way. A keener eye for detail and value? I'd go along with that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daetrin Posted February 26, 2008 Share Posted February 26, 2008 Yes, which circles back again just to how much work an FX kit takes to look good on someone. For some folks, the amount of mods it takes, unless you have a ton of free time or make a low wage, just don't pay off in the long run. Or you end up with a frakensuit, piece from here, another piece from there. In the end it *may* end up just easier to get a more accurate kit to begin with. You can trim to your heart's desire, but an FX chest is just not going to look proportional on a smaller person compared to an ANH sized one. Oh, and don't forget to upgrade the belt too. I can't tell you how many applicants I've seen as GML with people with barrel legs on their kits, especially TX who seem to think that just because their armor is black means they don't have to do anything to make it look correct on their bodies. I could put a 100% correct officer uniform tailored for a person 6'2" on a 5'4" applicant, but it just won't fly w/o a lot of alteration. Yet we continue to approve TK/TD applicants this way. Why? I have to say for me it's not the "inaccuracies" of the FX armor that drive me nuts ('cause I don't think it's that bad), it's the fact that it just can't be made to look proportional on many folks compared to them starting with a kit more their size, and even worse that there are a lot of folks who don't really try. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freakengine Posted February 26, 2008 Share Posted February 26, 2008 I have to say for me it's not the "inaccuracies" of the FX armor that drive me nuts ('cause I don't think it's that bad), it's the fact that it just can't be made to look proportional on many folks compared to them starting with a kit more their size, and even worse that there are a lot of folks who don't really try. The same can be said for trying to squeeze someone my size into more accurate armor. I'm not overweight, but I'm a big guy (6-3, 220) so it just looks silly on me. Even shimmed it's no longer proportionally correct. I'd actually love to see a more accurate design in a slightly larger size - everything proportional, but just a little bigger. I don't expect to see that happening, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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