Art Andrews

Rolf, Lets start a new thread about this as I don't want to hijack John's thread about the leather pouches, but really do want to discuss the canvas pouches in detail! I have been sitting on the fence about which one to get and would love to review some of the options out there and see what we think! And in regard to your question about the leather pouch, the photo you see is of Arturo, who does the occasional leather work. If I am not mistaken, he made a copy of my pouch for himself.. or maybe that is mine as I sent it to him to make the little 4th pouch for me. I honestly can't remember.

The pouch is an original leather MP40 pouch but we added the little side pouch up for accuracy sake... even though the pouch in the movie was canvas... I think once Miraz and I get our pouches from John, this pouch too will be up for sale. What kills me is I paid $200 for that pouch and I doubt I could get that out of it... Maybe from a WWII collector...

Thanks for the kind words. Want to give a word of advice about taking photos at sand dunes... Protect your camera! We did a shoot in Yuma about a year ago and while we got some very cool pics, the sand destroyed one camera and the lens on another camera! Sand is very very unforgiving when it comes to delicate electronic equipment.

I think they are planning on using black rivets.

I am in the same boat. I worked my butt off to get my Stolla Weins and I didn't think I would EVER get rid of them... well... those bad boys will be up for sale tonight. It really speaks to the quality of the product John/Lee are producing as I still love the Stolla Weins, but I just have no room for inaccurate pieces, no matter how awesome they are.

BTW, just to make a comment on the price... the Stolla Weins generally (not always) go between $75 and $100 each, IF you can even find them, and they aren't even the correct model, so for me, this price seems more than fair considering these are the most accurate pouches we are likely to ever see (much more accurate than the Stolla Weins) unless we suddenly get some stunning new photos or Lucas pulls the originals out of a box and puts them on display at an exhibit... but even then, I just don't know how much more could be changed. I think John and Lee have really nailed it and haven't spared any expense for the sake of accuracy. Nor at any time did they say "this is all we will do" in terms of making the prototypes. They just redid them again and again until they reached perfection based on the current reference we have available. These are an amazing product at an amazing price!

Your pauldrons look incredible and if you were still doing runs, we probably wouldn't be bothering with making one ourselves! We will definitely be taking a similar approach as we have two original mototcross chest protectors, and will be starting with those for a pattern. Should be a challenging project. Hope it turns out as well as this one!

Haha... sorry guys. Just saw this thread! Thanks so much for the kudos, but I am just another one of you... you have me a bit red-faced here! I am pretty excited to be back into the fold and am looking forward to catching up on all that you guys have accomplished and hope to be able to make a few new contribution of my own in the coming months!

Just want to make sure credit is given where credit is due. These aren't my pouches. These are all John. I was just an outside provider of a few thoughts and photos.

I still have more to add, but I have made some updates to looksirdroids, regarding the pouches, thanks to the new info we are discovering. Look Sir Droids - Leather Pouch Page

This is what I did on my Stolla Wein's.... just undid the sewing and reriveted them straight so they would fit on the stormtrooper belt.

I am still thinking the woodland scenics is our best bet, although I will prob pick up some oil based paint. Also wondering if compressed air would have been readily available on set in the 70s like we can get it today "in a can".

The other question I have is how would you get an oil based paint off the armor again? We have photos of the armor with most of the paint back off of it, most notably in the promo poster with Vader with the mylar background. Oil based paints take 12 hours to 7 days to dry. Seems odd that they would use that on set... Not arguing. Just trying to understand.

Very very interesting! Burnt umber is the color we came up with and the color used on my latest armor test. Am I correct in understanding this info came from someone onsite during the sandtrooper desert scenes?

That is entirely possible. The overall point we are making, and this isn't fact, just our hypothesis based on what we have seen of the construction, is that these pouches appear to be production made, not original MP40 pouches. Who knows... maybe LFL got them from bapty along with the guns from another production.

Wonder if perhaps they mixed an oil with dirt or fullers or something....

LOL He got shot in the head and is still standing!!!

I hope I haven't offended anyone. You are right that there is no right or wrong as long as artistic interpretation is involved. If I ever call something right or wrong, it is only in relation to what is seen on screen as in, if you are going for screen accurate, I THINK (don't know for sure) adding fuller's earth like I did is wrong... perhaps "inaccurate" is a better term. Sad fact is, we will never truly know what was in that little bucket they are using to weather the sandies with... It could be fuller's earth and water... although I seriously doubt it.

These definitely aren't trimmed Stolla Weins. The more we are discovering, the more we are confirming these almost HAD to be production made. The flaps are riveted to the body! How many original pouches have you seen like that? Like John said, must have been a rush and they just whipped these up! We are working on a series of corrections right now. Can't wait to see the next prototype!!! Looks like Stolla Weins that I thought I would have forever, will be up for sale soon!

I think you are right and I think most people lean to the "I want it to look good at costuming events" side of things. That was my original intent, but the more I get into it, the more I keep shifting back to the "what did it look like on set" look. Mike's weathering looks great! That guy excels at everything he does!

Sold the suit... never the gun!

I am def going to give the toilet paper a try on my next attempt. I have a chest plate here to work with while I am patiently awaiting a new set of armor. Hopefully, by the time I get it, I will have the weathering where I want it.

Here is my first version of the weathering vs the 2nd. While I like the 2nd a lot more, I don't think either really matches what we see on screen. The first was simply grey fuller's earth and hair spray. The 2nd was multiple coats of different colors of the woodland scenics, scrubbed down with a scotch brite, and then a thin layer of fuller's earth (tan this time) applied to the top. I no longer have this armor as I sold it to a collector in AZ.

Well, all of this is just an assumption on my part, but I believe the sandtroopers were weathered just once, probably out in the desert for the first shoot. We see them painting it on with a brush and later using a bunched up rag (I assume for the heavier splatter spots). In those early desert shots, the armor is as dirty as we ever see it. While there may have been light touchup, I don't think the armor was ever fully weathered again because you can see some of the same weathering patterns throughout all of the scenes, but some has gotten lighter, fallen off, been wiped off, etc. I still have no idea what they used for weathering but it must have been something akin to the woodland scenics we use, because it obviously comes off the armor with wear and tear, unlike real paint would do. While I love the look fuller's earth gives, I won't use it again because I don't believe they used it on the originals. Also want to say that I don't think the way it is weathered in the movie looks all that terribly great in person. It works on film and got the point across, but the whole paintbrushed-on mud-look really isn't realistic at all, and is probably NOT the answer if you are planning to troop in your armor. I don't know if I will ever have another set of armor or not (I hope so, but have been waiting a long, long time) but if I do, for good or bad, I will try my best to replicate the weathering seen on screen... but then again, I probably won't costume in my armor.

Thanks for the compliments! I don't know about being a "big shark" but I love to give back when I have the opportunity. I am just honored that John would allow me to participate in this project. I see what you are saying about the modification of the Stolla Wein pouches, but the problem is that there are quite a few differences between the Stolla Weins and the ones seen on screen, and I don't think a Stolla Wein, without major modification, could be changed into what we saw on screen. As you mentioned in scenario #2, and as John has previously hypothesized, the more I look at the pouches we see, the more I believe they must have had one or two real pouches to use as guides, and the rest were manufactured by the Art department. I could post some pics if it would be helpful to show the major differences between the Stolla Weins and the ones seen on screen. Personally, I wish they had used the Stolla Wein because they are a much better looking pouch, but we are going for accuracy here, not having a beauty contest! BTW, very nice looking collection!