Sandtroopers & Stormtroopers

[FIVE]

There was a good topic started on the FISD by "tatooine721" about the question of if Stormtroopers and Sandtroopers are really the same thing. I thought it was interesting and would post a link to it here as well.

Here's a link to the thread...

And here's what I said...

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Yeah, I agree... they are simply stormtroopers who are "deployed" to either Tatooine or some other planet. Which is cooler by far than being a "different thing" I think. We've obviously just made the distinction with the "TK / TD" and "sandtrooper" term to show the differences in costumes. But in the Star Wars universe they are all the same.

In fact we have proof they are just a "detachment" of troops. When Vader learns that the Death Star plans aren't on Leia's ship he tells the commander, "She must have hidden the plans in the escape pod. Send a detachment down to retrieve them. See to it personally, Commander. There'll be no one to stop us this time." The COMMANDER he's talking to is a stormtrooper commander. So, we can assume, he dons armor as well to oversea the away mission.

I like to think they are so dirty because they have their "dress" armor and their "away" armor. Hence the differences in the armor as well. The "away" armor has been used a lot in multiple battles and has different allowances for different atmospheres and climates etc. The "dress" armor is the stuff they wear "on ship"... to look impressive, etc. Sure, they might battle in it, but they would never be "deployed" in it. At least not to a planet like Tatooine.

Of course the troopers on Endor would then become the anomaly. But, I believe they were sent there more for "show" than for actual battle... that also explains how they were beaten so badly... they weren't expecting any real "action."

The biker scouts are probably the only real "other" we've seen in the films yet. I believe they would have different training and different "job descriptions" in the Empire. The snowtroopers would also be like sandtroopers... just stormtroopers geared appropriately for the environment.

Good topic!

I'm going to post a link to it on the MEPD boards as well!

Oh, something else I like about that "lost footage" is that Luke mentions "Starfleet" to Biggs. (around 2:50) I know it's actually the "Imperial Star Fleet" (two words)... but MAYBE that is the REAL reason the scene was cut. haha

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What does everyone here think?

[TD-9914]

Actually the Visual Reference for a New Hope does concure that black uniformed "Imperial Officers" (Legion IDs) are the Stormtrooper corps uniform when not in armor. It would make perfect sense as a baracks dress or non-tactical posture. That particular Officer who is told to see to it personally, may very well be that first Orange Pauldron trooper we see at the crash site, for all we know.

The Sandtroopers do appear to be a more elite version of trooper which is reinforced by the use of pauldons during the clone wars.

I suspect there are other colors of Sandtrooper we haven't seen yet. Orange get 7 sandies under him, like a Squad leader. Two are white pauldron SGTs, and the remaining are black pauldron corporals... Now, who is the Platoon Leader? Or are these boys like Special Forces ODAs where you would have a Captain leading about a dozen troopers?

I would imagine simple training in desert survival is only the tip of the ice berg. The Sandtroopers somehow knew to mimick Tusken attacks well enough to fool Luke Skywalker, so they clearly have enough specialized training in cultures and tactics, and I would even venture to guess even Huttese or Tusken dialect. Who knows if they ambushed the Tuskens to get their equipment or even negotiated with them for material in exchange for gaffi sticks etc....

Who knows what happened off screen... Would be worth depicting in a serious fan film or comic.

[FIVE]

Very good points!

I especially like that they may be trained in cultures / dialects / etc. Very fun stuff.

[Daetrin]

It's all speculation of course. My presumption is that the troopers are see on Tatooine are regular TK's with gear, just like TS are regular troopers with different gear. Perhaps some units may be arctic only, but probably not. In the US Army we don't have specific desert troopers at least.

Most of the "stuff" is really just extra gear for extended time away from "base". My $.02 anyway...

[Scootch]

I agree. I'm betting the armor the sandies are wearing is a bit more blaster proof etc. They are mostly carrying heavy weapons as if they expect engaging enemies while deployed to Tattooine. Pretty much everyone out there hates the Empire. That is definately how I would want to roll in that situation. I would think they are equipped like a reactionary force. What really gets me is the shoot out in DB94. You'de think with all those DL19's and To-21's there'd be some nice damage to the Falcon like a hole through one of those pistons on the ramp (which is what I'd shoot at since everyone knows Stormtroopers cannot hit Han Solo so why bother trying?). Mess up the ship so they can't leave atmosphere. Instead the Falcon sustains a couple blemishes while Solo's DL44 brings down half the entrance in one shot! More Rebel Propaganda! :o

[Rolf]

Here you go

http://www.looksirdroids.com/replica_sand-storm.htm

[FIVE]

Here you go

http://www.looksirdroids.com/replica_sand-storm.htm

Thanks!

This backs up what we're saying I think.

[TomG]

My 2 cents. I think as said above, that Sandtrooper are regular Stormtroopers with a little modified armor to be ready for more hostile climate and more dangerous planets. They have for it heavy weapons, backpack to survive long time outside of base.

They are placed on distant planets with limited supply routes, with longer patrols they don´t have time to wash armor or get new from supply. They replace it only when armor is really damaged. May be these soldiers are more skilled to survive in hostile environment, something like basic commando training. I believe, that on imperial planetes or ISD they have supply with replacement armor and for sure some place, where you can put armor to wash it chemically not by hand like todays soldiers need clean own boots

Why sandtroopers these black lines on greay areas on helmets? To have less holes in helmet and prevent from dust get inside of bucket.

As for Endor I think, when Emperor said, he sent here the best troops, he didn´t lie. He was crazy but not stupid. But probably in chain of command somebody made mistake or it was rebel scum, who changed few details about designation. Instead of sending here elite troops, he sent rookies. I would expect on Endor some elite jungletroopers with camo on armor Not white stormies, that can be harmed with small stones and little bears

[Pappy]

sandtroopers are more interactive to local's too,see the scene with the 'no-brow' sandy? the 'local guy' is smiling

we're friendly dude with serious jobs.

And,of course,davin felth's story can be one point for judgement

[madphisto.net]

I think it's just logical that Stormtrooper is the collective terminology for imperial heavy infantry

with different equipment and gear allowing for operations in different conditions.

Scout Troopers may be different due to their designation and passive role when it comes to

active combat. So Scout Troopers may be a seperated or specialized unit attached to a

Stormtrooper formation but in general they're also Stormtroopers.

Todays quick response forces also have one designator and limited but different specialized units

under that umbrella.

Imperial stormtroopers obviously got their title likeleyness from WWI roots of the stormtrooper

units (Shocktroops called Stormtroopers / first unit to be connected with that title wore body armor

and has been a pioneer unit). Structure and function most probably from the US Marines - they are

naval based, guard critical institutions and installations of the US on own soil and offshore, are the

major military instrument regarding foreign affairs. Marines can be equiped to adapt to almost any

environment on the globe.

Terms like Stormtrooper and Marines are collective terms not specifiying the task of a soldier in

particular. They indicate their military branch and merley emphasize their operative role and status.

[Caomhanach]

In the US Army we don't have specific desert troopers at least.

Yeh, but a lot of armies have specialized segments in them, like 'Mountain' or 'Artic' troops so in this case why not have specialized Desert troops?

[FIVE]

Yeh, but a lot of armies have specialized segments in them, like 'Mountain' or 'Artic' troops so in this case why not have specialized Desert troops?

Yeah... G.I. Joe and COBRA had those...

[Pappy]

Dessert? Ummm US Army had Marines,SEAL's,Delta's,Green Beret,etc for that,trained to be AT-CP (All Terrain Combat Personel)

[FIVE]

One more reply from me... (for now)

This is saying exactly what we're saying.

http://www.starwars.com/databank/organizat...pers/index.html

[madphisto.net]

I think that article about sandtroopers is a bit naive...

Of course modern troops get some preperation for certain combat environments but

in general we're talking of common grunts being equipped for desert warfare utilizing

desert camo suits and some more water bottles at best...

I doubt there's any army putting that much effort in creating combat units only used

for one specific environment - that's a waste of man power.

When the DAK landed in Tripolis they were just a common light division with some

special equipment provided in the progress of the campaign.

Todays units may switch combat suits and equipment according to environment but

remain the units they've been prior to that. At best those units may be prepared

for standard situations and specific obstacles and hardships they may face in desert

combat. Still they can be thrown in into action in complete different environments

with varying equipment fitting the task.

Serioulsy - most of the nonsense SW nerds and LFL staff are putting into the backstory

of costumes has little to do with real life practices. Well of course I cannot do anything

for the unlogical stuff LFL is incorporating in their story as being canon but common

sense should answer most of the questions of people interested in authentic backstories.

I always regarded all "white armor" troop types as stormtrooper units. It's just they

have adaptive gear at their disposal to complete their missions.

[Pappy]

The sandtrooper is a desert terrain stormtrooper equipped with modified armor and gear to better withstand missions in harsh, arid locales like Tatooine.

Well................it definitely breaks my heart ^_^

Sandtroopers are largely identical to standard stormtroopers except they have additional training in specialized areas.

Or not?

but it is similar like STuRMTRuuP of germany back in WW1,they dispatched on a small unit,and a higher standards of equipment than regular soldiers

[madphisto.net]

I wouldn't say higher standard...except being the first troops getting the M16 helmet they just got different

equippment to better suit their task like grenade bags, the shorter carbines, lighter footwear less strapping

on gear and the famous knee and elbow patches.

Those gears aren't from the same time frame but it's a good comparison between regular (1) and assault

troops (2).

Well I doubt all the specific differences that we use to categorize the costume are actually intended.

Some may be improvisations due to flaws by the crew or loss of parts.

However we chose to put some meaning to it...so

Those stormtroopers dispatched on the desert planet had minor changes in gear to withstand dust for

example sealed ventilation (helmet trapezoids and tears) and suit main controls (abdomen plate).

They also carried life support and supply systems as well as additional weaponry on their backpacks.

The diamond knee plate may be subject to suit variations of units by origin or production model revisions.

I doubt it's different in function than the standard knee plate - same applies to the awkward cheese grater

hand plate.

[FIVE]

Maybe in the Star Wars universe the gray traps and teardrops actually can "open" and "close"... so the slots can be there, or not, depending on environment.

And aren't we all glad that to be "canon" you don't also have to sport the hair styles that the actors had back then? Haha... that would be a bad idea for a lot of us.

[madphisto.net]

I could definately run into troubble getting an afro look

And about the ventilation being adjustabel - that is how I would have constructed these helmets

but a bit much to ask for in a movie prop

[MHenry]

There is a small garrison of desert equipt Stormtroopers assigned to Tantooine (MEPD). They along with a local unarmored police/militia keep the peace. Vader sends a large number of orbiting Stormtroopers (fleet Marines) down to dramatically assist in the search for those pesky droids. Including one...Davin Felth. These troopers are dressed for desert service.

[FIVE]

There is a small garrison of desert equipt Stormtroopers assigned to Tantooine (MEPD). They along with a local unarmored police/militia keep the peace. Vader sends a large number of orbiting Stormtroopers (fleet Marines) down to dramatically assist in the search for those pesky droids. Including one...Davin Felth. These troopers are dressed for desert service.

I like this explanation a lot!

[skutch]

I heard that Sandies were just more awesomer and so I went for it!

[madphisto.net]

Doesn't explain though weather Stomtroopers and Desert Stroopers are an own institution -

which I strongly disagree with...even if fan-fic and unlogical LFL sources might lead to that

conclusion. It just makes no sense from a military point of view.

But maybe that lack of knowledge has led to the downfall of the empire

ANH Script:

COMMANDER: Holding her is dangerous. If word of this gets out, it could generate sympathy

for the Rebellion in the senate.

VADER: I have traced the Rebel spies to her. Now she is my only link to find their secret base!

COMMANDER: She'll die before she tells you anything.

VADER: Leave that to me. Send a distress signal and then inform the senate that all aboard

were killed!

Another Imperial Officer approaches Vader and the Commander.

They stop and snap to attention.

SECOND OFFICER: Lord Vader, the battle station plans are not aboard this ship!

And no transmissions were made. An escape pod was jettisoned during the fighting, but no life

forms were aboard.

Vader turns to the Commander.

VADER: She must have hidden the plans in the escape pod. Send a detachment down to retrieve

them. See to it personally, Commander. There'll be no one to stop us this time.

COMMANDER: My Lord, I must inform you that all desert troop personel has caught the flu and is

quaranteened on sick bay - all what's left is the regular stormtroopers.

VADER: Perhaps I can find new ways to motivate them.

COMMANDER: My Lord you ask the impossible. I need desert trained men.

The Commander and Second Officer glance at Vader in terror. Vader turns slowly and walks off the

bridge, his hands held behind his back in a contemplative gesture and sighs.

ANH Script:

[...]

BEN: And these blast points, too accurate for Sandpeople. Only Imperial stormtroopers are so precise.

LUKE: Ben - every kid knows that Stormtroopers don't operate in desert environment. Screw you idiot.

[FIVE]

Haha... good job! Too funny!

After reading everything I could on Davin Felth and the Zeta Squadron and the 37th Detachment it's very clear that TKs and TDs are the same (at least in the EU)... the only differences seem to be where they're stationed.

Which is bringing up a whole other question for me to ask...

[FIVE]

Another thought on this whole thing... a few people have brought up the weathering, saying that the troopers who are shown on screen must have been there longer — like a permanent detachment — because they were so dirty... stating that there's "no way" that they could've gotten that dirty that quickly; but look at the droids.

C-3PO and R2-D2 aren't even out of sight from their escape pod and look like they've been outside for months! Threepio even says, "I've got to rest before I fall apart, my joints are almost frozen." So obviously the sand and climate on Tatooine are really, really severe.