BingoBongo_275 Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 Marc, No I don’t think thats what its saying. From what I understand the following is the crux of the matter.... AA still owns the copyright on the 3D helmets/armour he produced, unless a) LFL can prove (in writing) that he was under contract (or passed copyright to them) LFL can prove to the court that AA didn’t actually "create" anything himself, but merely fabricated in plastic 3D designs that were given to him by LFL (or someone working for LFL under contract) i.e. IF AA sculpted the helmets etc. then irrespective of whether 2D designs already existed (the McQuarrie paintings), he still owns copyright UNLESS LFL can show a document assigning copyright with his signature at the end of it. Cheers Jez Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dirty Trooper Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 Cheers Jez, clear as mud. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SethB6025 Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 Cheers Jez, clear as mud. It sounds like both parties here have to produce a lot of proof that has thus far been non-existent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BingoBongo_275 Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 Agreed, although the emphasis is on LFL. AA can prove that "his" sculpts exist, as they are on film (and no one is disputing that he fabricated them). LFL therefore has to prove that AA made them FROM from their 3D designs (so they will need to show proof, the pre-moulds or photos of them), OR that he sculpted under an LFL contract (again in writing) If they have this evidence then they havn't showed it thus far, either in the US or so far in the UK case. Cheers Jez Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dirty Trooper Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 Jez what will be the outcome if he wins or looses? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SethB6025 Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 Yeah, it should be interesting. Especially if things were done verbally and off the books. I'd say "good luck" to LFL to prove anything without something in writing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BingoBongo_275 Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 Yeah, it should be interesting. Especially if things were done verbally and off the books. I'd say "good luck" to LFL to prove anything without something in writing. Yes - thats the point. Copyright in the UK HAS GOT to be agreed in writing so LFL I presume will need to argue that AA did his work, based off theirs. Marc - IF LFL Wins & AA Loses - AA will be personally responsible for whatever the judge decides the value of the claim is. Anything up to $20m is possible but certainly enough to strip him of everything he has. In addition AA would have to pay LFL's legal fees which could be another million. IF LFL Loses & AA Wins - It means that LFL has not paid AA for using HIS copyright designs since 1977, i.e. they could be forced to reward him for every new movie since ANH, toy, game or collectable that featured Stormtroopers, Rebel Pilots, Fleet Troopers Death Star Gunners etc. etc. Since LFL has quantified the value of his "copyright infringement" at $20m this at least gives the court something to start with. Because both sides have so much to lose, these things normally end up being settled out of court, with the side in the more advantageous position taking funds off the other Cheers Jez Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dirty Trooper Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 Because both sides have so much to lose, these things normally end up being settled out of court, with the side in the more advantageous position taking funds off the other Cheers Jez What do you think to AA's side. I will back AA 100% all the way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BingoBongo_275 Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 My understanding is he has a very strong case. As far as how it will be resolved, my personal opinion is that they’ll come to a deal where the case is dropped with both sides claiming a “victory”. AA receives an amount of cash in turn for him ceasing production and signing over whatever IP rights he believes he has. LFL is able to resolve a problem that should have been sorted out years ago and also receives a few moulds into its archive. One year later Master Replicas releases the “Andrew Ainsworth Signature Edition” ANH Helmet, with tumblehome well and truly fettled Cheers Jez Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eifion Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 I think its great when talented artists produce replicas of great cinema history and popular culture. For many fans, aquirring such a piece is a dream come true. In the case of AA however, I am left feeling rather cynical. I dont believe his Stunt helmet delivered on its promise of uber-accuracy, his prices are in some cases insane, and he could have brought alot of heat on other prop makers given his conspicous method of doing business. He will have done rather well if this case is settled out of court in a mutual agreement and if it does . . .fair play to him. Producing and selling unlicensed products owned by such a large entity as lucasfilm takes some kahuna. Even if the lawyers unearth a legal loophole which gives him intelectual ownership of the Stormtrooper design on the basis of a technicality, the image of the Stormtrooper is one of the most iconic symbols of the Star Wars saga . . everyone knows that. If he had done things more low key I'd be on his side. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SethB6025 Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 I think a lot of people are looking to see him lynched regardless of this case. The dubious claims associated with the helmets, the evident re-casting of other fan made armor, these are the things that people want to see him get in trouble over. Since he can't, I think the possibility of him losing this case is the next best thing for the die-hard anti-AA camp. While I disagree with some of his practices, I wouldn't wish a situation like this on any prop maker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BingoBongo_275 Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 Seth I totally agree with your post. There is no doubt in my mind that AA has made a number of mistakes, whether by accident or design (or most probably bravado). I take some responsibility for the over-hyping of the original Stunt helmet, which clearly was not as accurate as all the excitement suggested. I apologise for that. The key problem was that there was clearly (at best) significant damage to the mould and AA should have been more forthcoming about that, rather than suggest everything was "as it was in 1976". At the end of the day I still believe its from the original moulds and therefore is still the closest in my view to an original helmet, fettled tumblehome or not! With regard to the armour, if he did say it was from his original moulds then thats just crazy. He certainly never said it to me, but I understand he said it to others. Like I said, crazy. Bottom line is in my view Andrew Ainsworth was instrumental in the design and implementation of “characters” that many of us have loved since childhood, Stormtroopers, Imperial Gunners, TIE Pilots, Fleet Troopers, DS Guards, Rebel pilots etc etc. yet was paid a derisory fee for his work. If he does get some backdated recompence for that then imo good luck to him! Cheers Jez Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoCKo Posted February 24, 2007 Share Posted February 24, 2007 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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