IMPORTANT All members PLEASE READ!!!!! 8-3-2006

[avatar_man]

Wow,

..and here I am down at SWW talking up the MEPD, meeting several members (most not deployed yet), and them recognizing me from the board, us talking shop and swapping tips, resources and also helping to possibly recruit new members. Needless to say, while I can identify with some of the concern regarding loss of community - it is exactly these kinds of posts that will drive away possible good membership (nobody wants to join a group of people when they are treated as a NOOB and ignored until they can by some miracle "cut the mustard" and be accepted as a normal member) - Been there done that , and ignore all ***** in the 501st that do this. When I started getting interested in the 501st (fall 2003) I was readily invited to my local Garrison meetings even without being a member, treated well and given advice.. since then I decided that if I was going to become a member, by God it would be as a Sandtrooper (active since November 2005). I found the MEPD and have been grateful ever since.

Everyone sees the occaisional butt-head posts and replies (myself providing them sometimes, I.E.- I recently posted my absolute disgust with the clean pauldron consideration that the Legion is thinking about) - but I have never experienced anything but camraderie, helpful suggestions and direction (shout outs to Mike/1536, Tony K and Hippie Trooper)....

That being said, yes things change..and being prior Miltary Police myself, I fully understand the need for proper reflection of history, esprit 'de Corps, etc.. but this is a civilian costuming group. The 501st is far larger than it was just 2 years ago and organizations MUST change if they are to survive. While I can accept "military" type of standards and organization, you run the risk of driving away some of the most phenomenal and talented people with this approach - that's a risk I would not vote for as a member. I know a LOT of people that are so non-military it can make your head explode when you think about it. But, I also find them to be refreshing, insightful and more artistic than me on my best day.... This hobby is about fun for me and most other members (some more serious than others, some more psychotic than others - we all know who YOU are! - kidding, just kidding.. )...Let's not drive the fun away obsessing over minutiae or feelings about other persons approach or dedication to their hobby..

This is just my two cents - I am probably full of it, so feel free to ignore me..

Love you all!

[SethB6025]

I haven't had my coffee yet, so bear with me. Joe, at this point I'm done responding to your nonsense. Like I told you in private, if you are looking to find out what happened to your rank structure and SOP and everything else, go ask Joey. He had the helm for nearly a year-and-a-half before I took office this past Feb. You can ask any other member of the staff, we started from scratch. Plus, right now dets are working together to all have a consistent way of doing things, so even if they were still around they could change in the future (we're part of the 501st, remember?). My dig on you at the MFP was because you are there talking trash on this detachment. I told you how to help, go out on the boards, and post, be helpful just like everyone else. If you think you have proof of the lies you accuse me of, feel free to post our communications in their entirety. I guess I'm missing how I wronged you. Read the posts in this thread, and see you are wrong. Sorry to throw it out in public, but when I see you trashing our group on another board, I start to wonder what the problem must be. Then, when no problem is evident, you come here, stir the pot, call me a liar and tell me I don't care.

[SethB6025]

I am not afraid someone is trying to "take my command". Even if that was something worth being paranoid about, the Legion charter has rules regarding elections. I think you're having a hard time accepting that your initial assessment of our group was wrong. Things are going well, and have been for some time. Thanks to everyone here.

[TD-1536]

...good speech...

Very well said!!

[Ilovesand&dirt]

...good speech...

Very well said!!

What Mike said.

We should NEVER forget our past or those who helped shape the past. And at the same time a "child" grows up and becomes an adult. Sometimes it is hard for a parent to let a child go. Have we made our mark? YES of course. We would not be what we are today if it weren't for those who fought for us and put their blood sweat and tears for us. We should be proud of the GREAT leadership we have and have had. Thank you to those in the beginning and Thank you to those in Leadership now. Keep up the GREAT work. Keep driving ahead.

My two cents, which might not even be worth that.

[runJEDIrun]

Hey Joe. I don't know you or care to know you after your rant about the good old days. If it is my respect for an elder you are looking for, you won't get it. Quite frankly i am speaking to you as a spectator since i am not an "old veteran" member such as yourself.

But first, let's talk paragraphs. Space out that crap! Nothing is more frustrating than having to read someone's ranting and having to deal with a huge block of words that aren't spaced out.

Secondly, THIS has TO stop. I can't HANDLE the BIG to SMALL thInG yoU got GoING on.

Im sure you will get your answers as the OLD LINE VETERANS have a chance to start popping off, and answering up

Hey dude, Sorry for liking the hobby. No one in old line claims to know the exact thing, forces it upon people, or withholds information. We in OLG are all family, and the MEPD are like our brothers. I think you are taking this way to seriously. I mean when it all boils down, It really is just a hobby. If anything sir, you are the one wrecking the community and the brotherhood. This board has been nothing but good to people. Everyone is welcome here. And if you even took the time to read the posts and get to know the people, you would know everyone is helping everyone else out.

And most important of all. The MEPD is fun. I LOVE it and the people that are a part of it. Isn't that what matters? Isn't that brotherhood? Granted I have been here less than a year, but I have taken the time to get to know a bunch of people on here and hope to meet a bunch more.

The thing that pisses me off the most Joe is that Seth didn't start this thread to pick a fight. He didn't call out names. And here you come storming in "blah blah blah, im an ex marine i know everything, i'm old and seths a liar and old line thinks they know everything, blah blah." That sir is some crap. I don't know Seth that well, but I know him enough to know he's a good person. Everyone here respects him as a person and as a leader. If you can't keep your personal crap private "trooperexpert", i mean... Joe... Then please leave cuz you are ruining this for everyone here. You make it not fun. And life is way too short to be bogged down by people who take their hobby too seriously and F**k it up for everyone else.

But I am a Full blooded ITALIAN, Former MARINE, Ex cop grumpy old guy who DOES NOT have the PC (politically correct) skills that Seth has

??? so? That's all great that you are/were those things, but it has nothing to do with this community.

Perhaps that's just the "smooth" "young" "PC" (politically correct) part of me talking...but i **** well mean it. I hope it was blunt enough for you to understand. Afterall I am only speaking my mind, and i will stand up for what i love and the people i believe in.

"You're shirt is ugly".

rant>

[TD5374]

Well I WAS done Seth.

I WAS! Mike I had finished.. We coulda went, had that beer, arm wrestled, grunted around like the 2 dang bohemien dirty crusty OLDWARHORSES we are (Yes , YOU HAVE been called that! You EARNED that title the way you talked my bro, agreement with me or not that ATTITUDE has it!) Also Mike, Hats off to you in another area... Way to back your CO. You done good, like a VERY well rounded Senior Staff NCO should. Buckets off to you.

Seth.

Sure is funny for someone who is done responding to my "nonsense" you sure are responding well and good more and more.

You know what, Im sick of hearing your poor sob story of starting this from scratch. You DIDNT. YOU didnt build the MEPD! Neither did I for that matter.

And dont you friggin DARE attempt in ANY way, shape, OR form to take ANY form of credit for it! Or we will start ALL over and Im tired of the Pissin match which, funny thing, YOU instigate with the small inuendo, then turn around on ME, making ME into the bad guy cause I flare up and let it ALL hang out. While you sit back and smirk, talking in such ohh so calm and relaxing tones of peace and working together. yeah.. I do wish that I had been onto you sooner and I WOULD have been keeping the PMs sooner. Because the way you twisted on me, one who approached you, a former D/L to a current D/L with an extended hand of friendship, whereas I BEGGED for the opportunity to help out. "yes do" and I go to MY Garrison mates and tell them hey we are going to go do a rush into the Barracks area and start doing a BUNCH of posts to try and get people who might NOT be posting to start, those who might NOT be building to build......etc.. I even spoke to my Garrison CO about it. I will not ask him to post on here about it. I do not expect him to come in here and post, due to his position on Legion Council, I expect him to remain aloof SHOULD NEED ARISE!

But, saying that, then I had to go to these Sandies, my brothers and YOURS TOO Seth, and tell them never mind. But the ONLY ones that can take credit for the MEPD are those who walked into the first hospital visit sportin the patch. The ones who carried the patch we used as our unofficial "shield". DO YOU REMEMBER THOSE DAYS SETH? You were there BROTHER! I know I GAVE YOU one of the first patches I ever made! I just checked my brother! I found the posting you keep referring to about when I came back after Bama wasnt returning doing his "job" as D/L.

Funny thing The whole Thread is called LEADERSHIP. (Guns even responded to it... we are old!!!!) If I remember, many people were contacting me about his being gone, and I think you were one of the ones being VERY vocal about his MIA status Seth, as you would have ABSOFRIGGINLUTELY every right in the world to be! If the D/L is NOT pulling his weight he should be questioned was the qist of the matter that I got from many of the "hard core crew" which, Now as I remember, you were one of.

But as I remember OUR CURRENT ROLES BEING REVERSED to a degree Seth, I also remember when I wrote the LAST post in that thread. I mentioned that "there are MANY peeps in here that I trust do do things right!! " I remember that you were one of the HARD CHARGIN OLDLINE VETS that I was thinking of when I wrote that Seth. And I thought then that you above all others were the one trooper who always seemed to want to make sure that you FOUND the new trooper who was sans dirt, bfg or pack over in the barracks. Then YOU were the one who led them over to the build it areas, hanging there, but always making sure you kept the Barracks "bumped".!

Leadership thread located at http://www.mepd.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=512

Yeah Seth. I DO remember.. NOW do you understand part of why...? Where did you go? Cause you aint the same Trooper that I left, and you had enough guts then to NOT allow anyone to force you to bend to accept doing things THIER way.

Im sorry if this is out of line my DIRTY BROTHERS for my language and my speech towards him. Im aplogizing IN FRONT OF YOU ALL now. He IS the current D/L and I should have shown the proper respect FOR THE RANK. I am Sorry for that MEPD. that jerked my chain and I reacted.

[TD5422]

I'm thinking we all need to settle down for a day, and that this thread should go away.

[runJEDIrun]

i see we learned nothing about paragraphs and CAPS LOCK.

i don't think this thread should go away though. I think people should have the opportunity to read it and think for themselves.

[TD5374]

"You're shirt is ugly".

rant>

Actually.. I do appreciate your comments. But, by the way, we already DO have a TrooperExpert. He is a GOODone too! At least he used to be. Been awhile...

At this point Im not starting any further problems. Im dealing with my own heat. Therefore, I wont slam into you great guns, although we can gladly deal in PM. I will say one thing though. The slam about the way I write was just COUNTER PRODUCTIVE!

I was never taught by my Teachers I guess to slop my words ALL over a page. Sorry.

But, I gotta put you in the same pack as Mike, you stepped up and were willing to speak your mind. I have NO qualms about that.

[runJEDIrun]

"You're shirt is ugly".

rant>

Actually.. I do appreciate your comments. But, by the way, we already DO have a TrooperExpert. He is a GOODone too! At least he used to be. Been awhile...

At this point Im not starting any further problems. Im dealing with my own heat. Therefore, I wont slam into you great guns, although we can gladly deal in PM. I will say one thing though. The slam about the way I write was just COUNTER PRODUCTIVE!

I was never taught by my Teachers I guess to slop my words ALL over a page. Sorry.

But, I gotta put you in the same pack as Mike, you stepped up and were willing to speak your mind. I have NO qualms about that.

I'm fine with that. Afterall i don't know you. That is just how i strongly feel after reading your posts. No need to go into PM's as I am just backing up my boys.

p.s. i know there was a trooperexpert and i was most certainly referring to the person in particular.

EDIT* you might have missed him on here stirring up trouble, wrecking brotherhood and the community...but we won't get into that. It was intended to be a semi-joke that i guess you didn't get.

[SethB6025]

Yes, let's all take a deep breath. I have more (constrcutive, thankfully), but no time ATM. Be right back.

[TD5422]

I didn't mean delete it, but it is now a pissing match and serves no purpose, especially concerning brotherhood. I guess locked would have been a better choice. But if I want to put up with infantile name calling, balling about who started what and yelling to force my opinion, I'll go back to the Medieval Boards. There you can get crying and whining 24/7.

I am on this board to better my impression and communicate with people who want the same. This thread is doing neither. I think most of the "important" points have been stated, and it's time to move on.

[TD5374]

...good speech...

Very well said!!

What Mike said.

We should NEVER forget our past or those who helped shape the past. And at the same time a "child" grows up and becomes an adult. Sometimes it is hard for a parent to let a child go. Have we made our mark? YES of course. We would not be what we are today if it weren't for those who fought for us and put their blood sweat and tears for us. We should be proud of the GREAT leadership we have and have had. Thank you to those in the beginning and Thank you to those in Leadership now. Keep up the GREAT work. Keep driving ahead.

My two cents, which might not even be worth that.

In all this.. In case Seth misses the thank you.

I will extend a THANKS for both of us.

And if nothing else, maybe this is all that ever needed to happen. Troopers thoughts are now on the future and on the past.. Remember, ohh man Im drawing a complete blank on the "WHO" said it ....

It goes basically that if you forget your past your doomed to repeat it.

We are now repeated our history. We are REVISITING the issues of dirt, pauldrons, etc.

Well, that was part of the frustration I have had. Lots of older troopers, but they dont know the history because it wasnt saved correctly for them.

Maybe it is looking like there is a LOT both SETH and I can do TOGETHER and it needs to be thrown out here in the OPEN!

And NO. Im NOT saying Im trying to hijack any ranks.Sheeesh.

When I rebuilt the MEPD I COULD have made it a Autocracy. But that is NOT what I wanted, nor anyone else.

[Ryn_Skywalk]

The one thing that got me heated the most was the comments made about "OLD LINE VETS" as you put it.

First off, there is only probably 6 of us on here that actually represent old line. I think it was very immature on your part to throw our garrison out there and make us look bad for no reason at all.

You want to talk about helping,sharing,and brotherhood? Old Line has been nothing but that! Between Mike helping Phil and I put our armor together, to Charlie letting us use his basement for armor parties and to vac-form backpack parts, everyone in Old Line helps each other.

I would appreciate it if you would do your best(i know its hard) to NOT badmouth other garrisons, while trying to make yours look better, because in reality, it just makes your garrison 'brothers' look as immature as you.

...end rant.

[Ryn_Skywalk]

I just want to apologize if my last post sparked more flames, i just had to get that point of my chest.

[TD5374]

I take a bit to respond at this point. Specially since I write novels!

Actually I have not slept yet . So I find myself occasionally, TROOPER NAPPING.. (ohh nooo the EVVVILLL caps lock is bacccck! hehhehehe)

I missed something! lol

You hate Caps lock, I hate emoticons.. what ohh so now look there is ANOTHER thing. This is good. Gets the old Sandtrooper blood pumpin. hehe But I will tell you one thing. You speak your mind. You stand up for what you mean.

Ill be tending bar for quite a few peeps it looks like! Cause if NOTHING else (ewww got him on the caps again ... kapowwww I LOVEIT ok ok Ill stop Im just playin now...) Everyone has now started looking at things from maybe a different point of view?. I know that I have looked at it from a newer TD's point. One who hasn't had to fight to not have trash thrown at them basically for want of another term.

Maybe others have had a new sight, maybe not.

[hpdblues]

I'm on duty...will launch my salvo later.

Tony

[TD5374]

The one thing that got me heated the most was the comments made about "OLD LINE VETS" as you put it.

First off, there is only probably 6 of us on here that actually represent old line. I think it was very immature on your part to throw our garrison out there and make us look bad for no reason at all.

You want to talk about helping,sharing,and brotherhood? Old Line has been nothing but that! Between Mike helping Phil and I put our armor together, to Charlie letting us use his basement for armor parties and to vac-form backpack parts, everyone in Old Line helps each other.

I would appreciate it if you would do your best(i know its hard) to NOT badmouth other garrisons, while trying to make yours look better, because in reality, it just makes your garrison 'brothers' look as immature as you.

...end rant.

Did I say old line GARRISON? did I? hmmmm nope I said old line veterans. Which, reading back in history as where I got it, and where we used it in here from way back was from the War of Independance. I do not (Phil! Look no caps lock just for you!!) remember the exact name of the units that fought in the particular battle, but from that battle they had been held up in a house which the Brits had almost shot down around them. They came out covered in dirt and dust. The original U.S. Sandtrooper! But they were called the OLD LINE Veterans because of a fence that ran past the place called the Old Line.

Again, this is some of the history that I seem to be beating my head against a brick wall saying its important and I guess Im the (yep here it comes Phil, just for you my Sandy Brother!) ONLY ONE WHO SEES IT? Cause no one else is botherin to gimme a shout out. At all. Period. So I guess the History Channel and all the spinoffs of that are wrong about what they have found about making sure you dont loose it. Im sorry. to me something like that is important.. Now, I bet that there is someone in here that can rattle off every single type of blaster used by the Imperial Forces though. One is a show of pride in a real combat unit I think that deserves something.

So no, had absoltely nothing to do with you, so next time you call someone immature, you might want to check your facts. Cause yep. All WAS calmed down till you opened your stupid mouth. Nice to be talked to that way isnt it. Nope? Ok Ill apologise for saying it. Cause it sucks. Hence Why I have apologized to Seth for speaking to him in a crude and unnecessary manner now ohh about 60 times in about 29 posts lol. My points I still wanted to have made, My method of delivery was unexcusable towards acurrent D/L. There is no argument from me there.

[Daetrin]

My POV:

I think the board is a better resource now than it was when I joined last year.

The leadership has done a great job - improving prop resources (like researching and making new main boxes), fostering new ideas, and clamping down when things get out of hand (think TE vs Gino).

The community is stronger with new members. They've added a lot of and tossed out great ideas. If the old members want to take satisfaction in helping community, there is definately an openness among the ranks to their opinions.

Communities change, and will always reflect the membership. I'm starting up the TK detachment, and the truth is no matter how cool I think an idea is, in the end the results will be determined by the group. The detachment is to serve their needs after all, not my own. Part of being in a group is that sometimes you're in the minority.

I think that our organization is pretty flexible. If you want to do something different, there is the example of the MFP to follow - e.g. a subgroup w/in a detachment.

In the end the truth is that this is a hobby. It's meant to be fun. I love it tremendously but try not to take it too seriously. I can choose to accept the tenets or not. At the end of the day as long as I'm trooping I'm happy.

As others have stated, I may drift at times to my other projects, and I will own and sell many costumes. But I will always have a sandtrooper, and this will always be my home. It was the first detachment I ever joined, and I can't imagine not belonging to it.

[SethB6025]

A few more posts since I wrote the following, but here it goes. Looks like some of it is still valid, as everyone needs to stow the personal stuff.

First off, please everyone back off. We have light moderation here, but if it’s going to get personal we’ll start banning members. I don’t like ANY member slagging off on another member. I don’t have any problem with anyone calling out a perceived flaw. When it’s starts to get personal, then it’s a problem.

Joe; in our private messages I said I disagreed about our state of affairs. We have a democracy here, so I didn’t think you should have to take my word for it. I asked the group for opinions, without turning it into a flame-war, and without naming names. If my purpose was to attack you, I would have said “Joe thinks we suck” or some other garbage.

Joe; I keep coming across wrong to you. When I said I “started from scratch” with the staff, I started with what was already there, a DL, an XO, and a webmaster. Nothing more. We created additional positions (Tony & I) to make things run smoothly, and to have back-ups, we expanded that to encompass the current staff. (Click on staff in the header for the long story short).

Joe; I take exception to comments like “you butchered the MEPD” and the list of baseless allegations you have made against me. When I say “nonsense” that is what I am talking about. You’re smarter and more mature than that. I don’t want to encourage anyone to act below their level. So, I’m disregarding that stuff. (edit-you apologized above, thank you) If you have a legitimate, coherent complaint, then out with it. It will be addressed. If you think there is content missing, bring it. No one needs to ask permission to be helpful. Right now, all I see you bringing to our group is negativity & venom. (edit-little less in the last few posts, please refrain from calling people stupid though, all of you) We don’t want that sort of thing, this is a positive, productive board. As evidenced by the replies here, that is a fact.

Healthy debate is fine, constructive criticism is fine. However, if you can’t separate that from flaming, there will only be one warning. For all who have been involved with this thread, this is the warning. There will be no more personal attacks here, from anyone, to anyone. Period. The consequence will be a banning. We are all adults; let’s treat each other as such.

I want to see all of this come to a friendly resolution. This isn’t supposed to be a pissing contest. We can move on, or move out.

[freakengine]

Joe,

I don't know you, and I haven't been involved in the sandy lifestyle for a long time, but I've really enjoyed the time I've spent getting to know everyone here and working on building the best set of sandtrooper armor I can.

I get what you're saying. You're pissing me off, but I get it. I built something in Memphis that was very popular for the five years I ran it. I decided I'd gotten everything I could out of it, and it was time for me to move on. I gave control of it over to my friends, who've made it run successfully for another five years. In that time, it's inevitably changed and mutated. Do all of those involved now know me? No. Do they look back upon me as the one who started it all and revere my image? God, I hope not. Do they still make some of the same mistakes I did when I first came up with the idea and produced it? Probably. But that's their perogative as I GAVE it to THEM. It's not mine anymore. I started it, but I've been on the west coast and not even peripherally involved. It's theirs, to change and grow and maybe even destroy. That doesn't change the fact that i started it and am **** proud of doing so. Even if they destroy it, they can't take that away from me. I know what I did. I know it was an accomplishment.

The thing is, if you step away and decide not to be involved, how can you complain when things change in ways you don't like? That's like those folks who don't vote complaining about the President. If you're not involved...if you don't participate, what say do you have? I respect you for the groundwork you laid. My hat's off to you for your service to the cause, brother. But it starts sounding like sour grapes when you stomp back in here ****** off because things aren't the way they used to be.

Just my thoughts. I wish you the best, and hope you'll share your knowledge and participate...just without all the ego crap.

[runJEDIrun]

I do not (Phil! Look no caps lock just for you!!)

haha! That's funny. <---emoticon lol. (i kid, i kid)

[SethB6025]

Cripes. [smacks forehead]

[TD7606]

I will not argue, any more in this topic... is pointless.

If your oppinion is that the "old line" was missed, and leadership is failing, and all that complains you have said... ok! you have said what you think, feel, etc... its your opinion and we will respect that

But as shown none of us seems to be agree with you, so you have now to respect us, if you want to participate excelent, if dont, its a shame but is your call

As personal, I do respect what Seth has donne, and I stand with him, he is a very good friend, and bro, he might have donne some mistakes, but in that case, we all

We are here because we want, and is for FUN, dont forget that