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Special Edition TD CRL discussion topic

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Okay, here it is. The final version. If anyone sees anything off or if you have suggestions, please let me know so we can get this right.

Thanks again for everyone's patience.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0By8lcQRTywc9RFV4Z05XUHRFdVE



The CRL looks good, but I've found a few things that bug me:

- Handguards: If LvL2/3 is accurate RotJ-armor, they shouldn't be made of latex or similar material. ABS shells are the way to go.

- Chest-armor: Original Strapping in RotJ didn't use brackets and screws, so they shouldn't be present for LvL2/3.

- Backpack: There is no SE Trooper without a pack, so why is it optional?

I'm still not happy with the ANH-Armor being used for basic approval. We are one of the most accurate detatchments and we're proud of it. Why lower our standards by accepting ANH-Armor for the SE-Trooper when it clearly is RotJ?

But I don't want to make a fuss, just my 2 cents

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Okay, here it is. The final version. If anyone sees anything off or if you have suggestions, please let me know so we can get this right.

Thanks again for everyone's patience.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0By8lcQRTywc9RFV4Z05XUHRFdVE



The CRL looks good, but I've found a few things that bug me:

- Handguards: If LvL2/3 is accurate RotJ-armor, they shouldn't be made of latex or similar material. ABS shells are the way to go.

- Chest-armor: Original Strapping in RotJ didn't use brackets and screws, so they shouldn't be present for LvL2/3.

- Backpack: There is no SE Trooper without a pack, so why is it optional?

I'm still not happy with the ANH-Armor being used for basic approval. We are one of the most accurate detatchments and we're proud of it. Why lower our standards by accepting ANH-Armor for the SE-Trooper when it clearly is RotJ?

But I don't want to make a fuss, just my 2 cents

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If you guys need ROTJ armour to make the SE troopers, just let me know

t4yiCu7.jpgGtpZALc.jpg

How much?

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2 hours ago, BenFriday77 said:

 


The CRL looks good, but I've found a few things that bug me:

- Handguards: If LvL2/3 is accurate RotJ-armor, they shouldn't be made of latex or similar material. ABS shells are the way to go.

- Chest-armor: Original Strapping in RotJ didn't use brackets and screws, so they shouldn't be present for LvL2/3.

- Backpack: There is no SE Trooper without a pack, so why is it optional?

I'm still not happy with the ANH-Armor being used for basic approval. We are one of the most accurate detatchments and we're proud of it. Why lower our standards by accepting ANH-Armor for the SE-Trooper when it clearly is RotJ?

But I don't want to make a fuss, just my 2 cents emoji6.png

 

While I agree about the accuracy of the armor (ANH vs ROTJ), only 54 people are listed on the 501st as having approved ROTJ armor.  Based on that and the limited number of people that produce this armor, I feel it would severly limit the number of people submitting for approval.  Allowing submittal with ANH or ESB will allow people to get approved and join the 501st / MEPD at a lower cost and easier.  Keeping in the spirit of getting people involved.  As you will note, even the pack is made from more readily available materials.  As you get to level 2 and level 3, the 100% accuracy becomes a requirement.

 

These are just my 2 cents.

 

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While I agree about the accuracy of the armor (ANH vs ROTJ), only 54 people are listed on the 501st as having approved ROTJ armor.  Based on that and the limited number of people that produce this armor, I feel it would severly limit the number of people submitting for approval.  Allowing submittal with ANH or ESB will allow people to get approved and join the 501st / MEPD at a lower cost and easier.  Keeping in the spirit of getting people involved.  As you will note, even the pack is made from more readily available materials.  As you get to level 2 and level 3, the 100% accuracy becomes a requirement.

 

These are just my 2 cents.

 




Then we're talking about 2 different starting points...you think of the troopers who already have an approved RotJ (not much of them around, you're right) , I'm thinking of entirely new builds for the SE trooper.

But the number of producers is a good argument I have to admit. I'm only aware of TM and CfO. The costs are the same as ANH Armor, there should be no big difference.

As to getting people into the Legion with a SE Trooper as their first costume: Wouldn't it be really bad for them if they want to go the PO or SWAT route and realize they won't be able to because of their armor?
I think the wording in the CRL should be changed for all LvL2 and up and specify for every single part that the RotJ armor is needed. There is one sentence in the beginning, but you know how this works....people don't read properly and it shouldn't be harder for new recruits as it already is, should it?
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Then we're talking about 2 different starting points...you think of the troopers who already have an approved RotJ (not much of them around, you're right) , I'm thinking of entirely new builds for the SE trooper.

But the number of producers is a good argument I have to admit. I'm only aware of TM and CfO. The costs are the same as ANH Armor, there should be no big difference.

As to getting people into the Legion with a SE Trooper as their first costume: Wouldn't it be really bad for them if they want to go the PO or SWAT route and realize they won't be able to because of their armor?
I think the wording in the CRL should be changed for all LvL2 and up and specify for every single part that the RotJ armor is needed. There is one sentence in the beginning, but you know how this works....people don't read properly and it shouldn't be harder for new recruits as it already is, should it?
I agree with insuring it is very clear that they will need ROTJ armor if they want level 2 or level 3.

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8 hours ago, BenFriday77 said:

 


The CRL looks good, but I've found a few things that bug me:

- Handguards: If LvL2/3 is accurate RotJ-armor, they shouldn't be made of latex or similar material. ABS shells are the way to go.

- Chest-armor: Original Strapping in RotJ didn't use brackets and screws, so they shouldn't be present for LvL2/3.

- Backpack: There is no SE Trooper without a pack, so why is it optional?

I'm still not happy with the ANH-Armor being used for basic approval. We are one of the most accurate detatchments and we're proud of it. Why lower our standards by accepting ANH-Armor for the SE-Trooper when it clearly is RotJ?

But I don't want to make a fuss, just my 2 cents emoji6.png

 

I kind of agree. I think it's ok to still use ANH for basic approval,but I feel the details from ROTJ should be added, the frown paint, the the edge covers on the armor, the flipped over ab plate. Also, I'm fairly sure the SE troopers are only seen with a E-11 but then again that doesn't really matter as it's optional. 

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So here's my opinion on some of these issues

Backpack: I think it's been 2 years now, but we voted on what we as a community wanted to see in the original TD CRL. The vote was to keep the backpack as optional for level one. In keeping with that vote, that is why I left it as optional. It is however, something I'll bring up with the DL to see if we want to require it for level 1.

Armor: One thing that we should consider is that over our thousands of stormtroopers, only 56 (or whatever the number was) have chosen to go RotJ. I'm not personally sure if that is because ANH is more popular or armor is easier to find in that style. I don't think it should prohibit someone from doing the SE TD if, depending on where they live, ANH armor is the only thing accessible.

That being said, I totally agree and can make it clear that RotJ armor is needed on all pieces for level 2 and up.

Handguards and Chest strapping: My work internet filters suck, so I wasn't able to find out much about this. If you guys can show they were not used then yes, let's get that removed.

I do want to thank everyone for their input. This is a great community to be a part of and I can't wait for the final CRL to go live. Please keep the feedback coming, I appreciate the help.

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Really my only issue is the paint. If ESB trooper basic approval requires the black frown and other painted details (on ANH armor) I think the SE should at least require the same painted requirements (ie. black frown, correct tube stripes, trap stripes, button colors, etc). All the modifications would be easy, without those mods it's basically a heavier weathered HWT that doesn't require a pack. I totally agree thy using ANH armor will make this costume much more accessable, but we can improve on it a bit when we have the opportunity. 

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Ok, my input is SE, needs to be SE. I don't mind the ANH armor being used, but, the other ROTJ /SE details should be followed. Frown paint, trap details, tube stripes and ab button details and heavier weathering. These are modifications that can be made fairly easy. Definetly have it worded to where it is very evident base level approval " ANH" ( without the edging ) style armor is not up to level two - three standards. Drop boxes should be optional, and the knee plate also optional.  Backpack should be optional and required only for level 2-3. 

 

I also agree with screen accuracy and MEPD being very poinient in defining the different levels of approval. I don't think we should lower the standards , but make it more of a prestigious build , SE, and have its very distinct differences than OT ANH.  Just my opinion. I want to see this come to life and agree that it will help make SE more achievable,. With proper attention to details. Mainly the already mentioned details above and earlier in this thread. 

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Special Edition troopers wear ROTJ armour. If you are replicating this version of trooper then you should wear ROTJ armour. It's pretty simple really. There is no point going SE otherwise, just stay ANH.

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5 hours ago, troopermaster said:

Special Edition troopers wear ROTJ armour. If you are replicating this version of trooper then you should wear ROTJ armour. It's pretty simple really. There is no point going SE otherwise, just stay ANH.

I felt strongly this way as well , until I realized that even in the SE film, there are the OT troopers Wearing ANH armor. I do feel SWAT standard should be particular to the troopers featured in the reference photo.  This makes it practical for new recruits . Although, I don't see a huge demand in this particular version.

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I dont often comment here..but lurk a lot!
I STRONGLY disagree with allowing ANH style armour for this build..even as Lvl 1. It should be ROTJ style..or nothing.There are 2 very reliable vendors now for ROTJ armour( more vendors than some armours have!)..difficulty in aquiring the correct kit is not an issue.
At the most lenient..modded ANH style armour could be allowed for Lvl 1..but must have the fat black frown...clam handplates..stickers for lid details..torso armour trim...etc.
If you are just gonna use ANH armour..why even bother creating a SE CRL?

I also think E-11 and black pauldron should be the only ones accepted. For all ontents and purposes..no other SE Sandie bariant exists.

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2 hours ago, Cantina Security said:

I felt strongly this way as well , until I realized that even in the SE film, there are the OT troopers Wearing ANH armor.

That's true, but they are regular ANH troopers whichever way you look at it. Everyone knows that when you refer to a Special Edition Sandtrooper, you mean the newly added troopers that wear ROTJ armour. There should be no discussion about using regular ANH armour in my opinion.

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That's my precisely what i think, Paul!

There is no point in building a SE Trooper while not using ROTJ armor and helmet! The armor/helmet makes more than half of the complete costume. It's not just a minor greeblie we're talking about but the major part of the full character.

To archive the look of the original SE Sandtrooper there is no way without ROTJ armor and helmet which actually MAKES the SE TD's or at least half of it! Everything else wouldn't be near to accurate.

 

While i often don't get the rules or policies of the 501st isn't accurate looking characters the main goal?

So no SE TD's without ROTJ armor and helmet, that simple, imho!   :whistling:

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22 hours ago, CrookKnight said:

Coomrnent: All shoulder straps need to be ribbed.

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I think I noted that earlier based on the bust you posted, so yes the proposed CRL needs to be updated. It still notes having a shoulder pouch (not needed - see pic on page 1 and commented on)

So what are we expecting here? Do we think existing TD's just swap the pack? are we thinking that TK's just muck up, add a pack and deliver? Or do we want actual ROTJ's converting or starting at the beginning? We seem to be talking all three here in my opinion.

I don't think we can just add a pack and be SE - CRL has too many changes

TK's should be a good starting point IF they do a couple of specific items - ie the helmet having the correct frown for example. An ROTJ style bucket is needed as as a minimum - no ANH helmet. I think that this level is needed for Basic Approval

Preference of course is having the full ROTJ armor right off the bat. This is PO or SWAT level.   

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I am getting ready to build an ROTJ Bucket for this, plus it will be good to have another one anyways.

At this point, I am going to see what the "Powers that Be" decide to do and what the Final CRL looks like.

Someday soon I will be building a Classic ANH Sandtrooper.  Can't wait.

 

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I just want to make sure everyone is clear on one point. The reason we have talked about letting ANH armor for level 1 is that LMO team won't accept partial or unfinished CRLs anymore, meaning that we would need at least one member with an approved costume to make this go live. Due the lack of current members with RotJ armor, that is why we've looked into this other route. We did initially want to make it pure RotJ armor across the board but we were denied by the LMO because we didn't have someone with a finished costume for the pictures.

So, if we do go for pure RotJ across the board, we might have this in limbo until someone with RotJ armor can get the pieces to complete the CRL.

Again, thank you to everyone who has voiced your opinion. As one of the command staff members, I take all of your input very seriously and I hope we can make the CRL something everyone can be proud of.

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At the risk of delaying getting the new CRL up, my view is we should wait until someone with ROTJ costume is able to complete the pictures.

We shouldn't reduce our standards, and while we want it to be straightforward to get into the MEPD, if the SE is a ROTJ, then the CRL should be ROTJ otherwise it's not screen accurate is it?

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Considering a good ROTJ armor set is around $1200 USD, I will not be an TD SE anytime soon. Good luck. I will continue to work on the next level pack, but I will put it on the back burner until the CRL is complete.

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