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R1 discussion topic on the FISD


dutchy
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Troops, my brothers and sisters of the MEPD!!

Please do chime in on this topic on the FISD. Daetrin has initiated this and I am looking forward to a constructive discussion that might bring new armors/ costume(s) to the MEPD.

http://www.whitearmor.net/forum/topic/42076-the-types-of-r1-armor-and-where-they-are-going/?p=564036

Keep it neat and keep it clean!!

:salute:

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Hey Everyone, 

Thanks for the Invite Dutchy! Magni here from FISD. I'm a HWT and glad to see more new Troopers with packs in R1! It's also great to see the MEPD and FISD getting together and talking about it. So I'll let you go and have a look around.

Randy

TK/HWT-16127

EIB[583] CENTURION[5]

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10 hours ago, magni said:

Hey Everyone, 

Thanks for the Invite Dutchy! Magni here from FISD. I'm a HWT and glad to see more new Troopers with packs in R1! It's also great to see the MEPD and FISD getting together and talking about it. So I'll let you go and have a look around.

Randy

TK/HWT-16127

EIB[583] CENTURION[5]

Good to see you here magni :duim: 

Yes, it's really a good thing that our detachments have found each other( again). I'm really looking forward to a constructive year working together with the FISD!!

:salute:

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10 hours ago, LoveMonkey said:

Thanks for chiming in magni. I'm hoping we get some of these new troopers, I think it could be a really good opportunity for us to grow.
@dutchy, I've weighed in. Here's to hoping we get it.

Exactly, this is the way to go for the future.

I've seen your post ( and thank you for that) and  from several other members as well, we're definitely heading in the right direction now!

:salute:

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Looks kind of dangerous to tread over there.  I posted my two cents. (which the internet promptly ate and logged me out - no worry Ill repost)

And I was not aware of the "wanting the HWT back" - where are these threads?

 

edit - I'll post a link to this over in the private Facebook group - cause I know people don't hang out here as much as they do on Facebook. :P

 

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I went over to the FISD thread and it felt hostile over there. My 2credit may not count as I have not yet completed my TD kit  yet. It feels that there is no clear out line for new armor configurations and where they would fit in , as there had not been any for a long time now. Some one answered my silly comment once that ... Star Wars would not confer with us on costuming but we would conform to the franchise. So the visual guide says sandtrooper , that should be a heavy hand to tip the scale. 

The things that make MEPD TDs different as mentioned on the FISD listed out to just five or six things.  There has to be some thing more that make a trooper fit here. I think others feel that only troopers from the scenes in  Mos Eisley could be a part of this detachment.. .

So as a newbie here I am wondering why or why not include these other troopers. The reasons given on FISD point to dropboxes and knee plates a lot. Even if a trooper was clean (pre-weathering) or the environment was not so dirty as Tattoine what would be the defining characteristic of a Sandtrooper [deployed trooper]? 

So many questions I have... help me MEPD your my only hope.

 

Asher:td: TDid to be determined soon I hope

 

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The main reason the Sandtroopers didn't have the same knee plates and drop boxes is because they weren't made yet. Sandtroopers were slapped together quickly to start filiming in Tunisia. If they had filmed the Tunisia scenes later I guarantee you Sandtroopers would have all the same details as regular TKs plus dirt.  

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Honestly what I think makes a Sandtrooper a Sandtrooper is the weathering, field packs, pauldrons, pouches and BFGs.

Those small details in the costumes were byproducts of the production schedule of the film. 

Also I never understood why FISD Heavy Weapon Troopers carry T-21's. In the game they are based (Battlefront II) they all carry rocket launchers. I think HWT exists solely so people can have two costumes in one. That's why they only "lightly" weather with shoe polish so it can be wiped away and cleaned.

Edit:

not trying to knock HWT or the FISD, I get it that we are all just plastic spacemen trying to make kids happy. I was just saddened by the hostility over there. The FISD is a great resource. I used it during my build and I still look at tutorials from time to time. I can't wait for our detachments to start working together more. I hope it helps alleviate some of the hostility. 

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Not to stir the pot. But I being one of those shoe polish wearing HWT's Centurion#5 proudly am confused at how awful we're being over at FISD that you come and trash us on your own site. Enough even that guilt made you edit it to say your not knocking us when you were. I for one believe you should get Jedha Trooper. But not the HWT, which has been hinted at wanting it back. Fun story, when I was building my pack it had to follow your Sandy pack. So I signed up over here to research. Now I'm not a just ask kind of guy, I'll dig for info. And what I found was when anyone posted about needing help with a HWT pack they got either radio silence or worse ridiculed and told to find it yourself. So back then I could see how it was and never posted a thing. Just found my info and never came back. Then before I finished FISD changed pack to game style. So I have a Capt. Pack hanging on the wall now. I've been following all of this on both sides and I haven't noticed any hostility from the FISD side. It would be great to point out what seemed offensive. Clean or Dirty we're all Brothers and Sisters. One love for SW. And for the record I use charcoal powder. Make up, LOL

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I agree that we shouldn't get the HWT over here. Its already well established in the FISD and moving it would create a ton of problems plus destroy a great resource over at FISD. I think it would have had a great home here but the detachment at the time didn't want it and it is what it is now. I didn't mean for it to come across like I was trashing the HWT, my point was that the reason many feel like MEPD shouldn't get the new costumes is because R1 Jedah troopers have the drop boxes, ab details, knees plate, etc.. Meanwhile the HWT CRL allows for t-21s which they don't carry in the game (which for the record I have no problem with, and during troops I don't think it should matter what kind of blaster anyone is carrying). Mainly I was just pointing out that everyone (MEPD and FISD) are sticklers about some small details but ignore an entire blaster. 

And you are right, I think what I was taking as hostility was more disappointment from only a couple posts over there. That should not be reflective on all of FISD. FISD has been a great sister site with us. I think we can build great R1 CRLs together. 

 

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On ‎18‎-‎6‎-‎2017 at 0:33 AM, Fraulein said:

Looks kind of dangerous to tread over there.  I posted my two cents. (which the internet promptly ate and logged me out - no worry Ill repost)

And I was not aware of the "wanting the HWT back" - where are these threads?

 

edit - I'll post a link to this over in the private Facebook group - cause I know people don't hang out here as much as they do on Facebook. :P

 

It's just as dangerous for us as for them to visit the MEPD :P

It's good to see a lot of MEPD members that have chimed in there.

Wanting the HWT back, well looking into the possibility to get them back is more the thing actually.

:salute:

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11 hours ago, Asher said:

I went over to the FISD thread and it felt hostile over there. My 2credit may not count as I have not yet completed my TD kit  yet. It feels that there is no clear out line for new armor configurations and where they would fit in , as there had not been any for a long time now. Some one answered my silly comment once that ... Star Wars would not confer with us on costuming but we would conform to the franchise. So the visual guide says sandtrooper , that should be a heavy hand to tip the scale. 

The things that make MEPD TDs different as mentioned on the FISD listed out to just five or six things.  There has to be some thing more that make a trooper fit here. I think others feel that only troopers from the scenes in  Mos Eisley could be a part of this detachment.. .

So as a newbie here I am wondering why or why not include these other troopers. The reasons given on FISD point to dropboxes and knee plates a lot. Even if a trooper was clean (pre-weathering) or the environment was not so dirty as Tattoine what would be the defining characteristic of a Sandtrooper [deployed trooper]? 

So many questions I have... help me MEPD your my only hope.

 

Asher:td: TDid to be determined soon I hope

 

It's a good bunch of clean boys and the conversation is being kept neat and clean.

The TD that we are referring too is the one known from ANH and that differs from the Jedha one for sure. How I see it is as follows...R1 takes place before ANH so in a way we have evolved from that version. 

One other thing that I find really important as a troper and as your DL is that we need to expand. When you look at other detachments they have a variety of costumes whilst we only have the one.

We can keep seeing everything black and white but on the flipside we can also broaden our horizon and that's the way to go.

:salute:

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@henselmonster and @magni,

It's good to see that you've personally have cleaned the air. We do need to keep it neat, professional and constructive as I can see is happening on the FISD. I have complimented your DL personally with it and I'll say it here again, that I'm positively surprised by the discussion concerning this delicate subject as is he too.

Back to the HWT, there have been decisions made in the past that might not have been correct or well thought at that moment but times are changing and both the MEPD as the FISD need to keep the detachments going into the right direction.

For now the R1 Jedha Sandtrooper is on the radar first, after that is done and settled we than can see and judge how the whole process went.

Following that, we can start discussing about transferring additional costumes that will get all the credits and praise for the hard work that has been done, no doubt about that.

I see a great future ahead for both the FISD and the MEPD.....

and we all serve one emperor ;)

:salute:

 

 

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12 hours ago, henselmonster said:

Honestly what I think makes a Sandtrooper a Sandtrooper is the weathering, field packs, pauldrons, pouches and BFGs.

Those small details in the costumes were byproducts of the production schedule of the film. 

Also I never understood why FISD Heavy Weapon Troopers carry T-21's. In the game they are based (Battlefront II) they all carry rocket launchers. I think HWT exists solely so people can have two costumes in one. That's why they only "lightly" weather with shoe polish so it can be wiped away and cleaned.

As a future TK/HWT, I'll be the first to say that you are absolutely right: the ability to have two costumes in one is exactly why I am going TK instead of TD.

My opinion, which I hope I voice at FISD (and here) in a spirit of meekness, with no intended hostility towards anyone here at MEPD, is that to me the difference between the sandtrooper and stormtrooper is set in the production changes made to the armor from Tunisia to Elmstree, not in the accessories and weathering. And I'm assuming (I know assuming is risky!) that historically the MEPD has believed this to be the case, as well, as this mentality appears to have been the basis of not accepting the ANH:SE sandtrooper into the MEPD CRL and for apparently rejecting the opportunity to be the home of the HWT many years ago, as well.

I find it inconsistent to criticize the HWT as just an accessorized TK, but to also want the Jedha to be part of the MEPD when it is literally an accessorized Rogue One TK.

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To grow as a detachment and add more CRLs, the description of the detachment may need expanding. Currently it only mentions ep.4 ANH troopers from Mos Eisley.. as a newbie I would be interested in understanding better what types of troopers are a good fit here. 

Also a description of what constitutes a costume to be a TD vs. TK . Is it just the armor pieces, location , deployment. Every one has different load outs. What defines one trooper from another. The answer to this may help with future costumes. 

Thanks for listening

Asher

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Sorry to say this but I have to say that I think a lot of this is our own fault... Some members were very elitist early own and disowned the HWT same as they disowned the SE Sandtrooper - they wanted us to be "pure" Sandtroopers and even think it was voted on more than once... Now all of sudden we want to jump on the bandwagon and claim a costume... Now I agree that the R1 Sandie should be here but let's leave all other conversations about the HWT in the past...


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Not saying anything I haven't said a good half dozen times before, but I'll say it again now:

The R1 "Jedha Patrol" and R1 Sandie both belong here.  YES, we shoved off the HWT a long time ago (in, what I'd say was a bad call). But what's done is done.  

HWT should stay with the shinies over at FISD, but the DIRTY Jedha Patrol and Sandies belong here.  They are DEPLOYED, DIRTY, and geared up- Dirty enough, I'd say, that that level of dirt would be the permanent sort and not the 'little bit of scuffing' that seems to pass on many HWTs so they can maintain their TK status as well.

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Very interesting. 

I am very excited to see this kind of discussion and passion both here and over the FISD...

Have tried to read all posts here and there and so far I have not made up my mind on wether we should or should not try to bring the Jedha troopers here. 

Let me explain myself...

I was one of those who not only voted against having the HWT here, but also was very loud when voicing my opinion on why we should not. At the time, the decision was made and the HWT that started with TD designation was changed into TK. That was a big victory for our detachment, or at least, it felt like it. It was not a matter of having more than one CRL, but to win the sole right of being called TD. Yes, it might sound ridicule now, but back then we felt like we accomplished something.

Even more, 15 years ago, Sandtroopers weren't a thing. They even werent really an important character, just a dirty Stormtrooper with lots of things on the back. Not like Snows and Scouts, we were just... dirty Sandtroopers. So, somme people within the 501st gathered together and formed the MEPD with two main concerns: giving the sandtrooper a place in the empire, and unifying the looks and criteria for our character. That is why we fought for the right to have our own designation, and won. TKs, TDs, TSs and TBs...

There were no TK commanders, HWT, Flametroopers and the such. Those came later.

That, and the armor which was for us part of our DNA,  was the main reason why we didnt wanted to share our designation with others... specially non Sandtroopers. Cause, this is a Sandtrooper detachment, not a Dirty with BFG trooper detachment...

 

Then came the SE CRL discussion... we as a detachment tried to include it a few years ago. I even started making a ROTJ helmet into a SE TD. But no one followed. Not here, not on the FISD... So it just stayed there, standing by for another day.


 Cut to today, Sandtroopers are big, are important and are something. 

And, now there are other kinds of Sandtroopers according to LFL literature. 

 

So, leaving behind all HWT discsussion, I do think like Justus as in we need to expand the detachment... go further. But, I am still feeling a bit like this place, the MEPD, should be a place just for ANH Sandtroopers.


SO... my idea here is, disregarding the FISD MEPD contest to win the Jedha trooper, why not evolve into some sort of Imperial Law Enforcement Detachment. with the MEPD for ANH and SE TDs, and JPD for Jedha Sandtroopers.

There is one GREAT BIG difference in background and story with both ANH Sandtroopers and Jedha troopers that put us apart from all other Troopers: in the movies, we interact with civilians... in law enforcing duties. Not like all other troopers that only fight and perform military duties.

 

Anyway... those are some of my thoughts.

 

As I said,  need to make up my mind on what's my opinion on all this.

 

Saludos.

Juan



 

 

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I do love the idea of having more CRLs in our armoury and @iconoclasta_88comments above around Law enforcement officers interacting with the public (as opposed to Soldiers in my mind) starts to define the difference for me.

Just to be devils advocate for a second, as we go down this path, it makes me wonder how we can become less restrictive and open to new characters as the stories continue to develop, when our name clearly states we are Mos Eisley (and I get the historical significance behind this and wouldn't want to change it).

Unless we are suggesting that our Police department has the control of deploying troops to other planets (which we're not), a Jedha Sandtrooper doesn't logically sit within the Mos Eisley PD.

I do 100% agree the Jedha trooper should sit with us. However, taking a step back from it all as a layman, or "general" SW fan, unless we think about calling ourselves something like the Imperial Police Department (or ILED as suggested above) and having different planet sub-divisions I can't see it making complete sense to easily drop new costumes into our detatchment.

as new costumes then come up in the future (which they will) the decision could become - are they a Law Enforcement, or are they a Military costume.

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I don't think the Det name is really an issue. The "Sith Lord Detachment" homes Kylo- a non-Sith, "The Flagship Eclipse" isn't limited to characters associated with the ship, "Imperial Gunnery Corp" is developing the R1 Ground Crew CRL. The 'I' in FISD stands for "Imperial"..yet they happily house the First Order. Heck, even our sister group the Rebel Legion has non-Rebellion characters in its ranks- notably Old Republic and Resistance.
It's really not a big deal.

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3 hours ago, Colin1138 said:

I don't think the Det name is really an issue. The "Sith Lord Detachment" homes Kylo- a non-Sith, "The Flagship Eclipse" isn't limited to characters associated with the ship, "Imperial Gunnery Corp" is developing the R1 Ground Crew CRL. The 'I' in FISD stands for "Imperial"..yet they happily house the First Order. Heck, even our sister group the Rebel Legion has non-Rebellion characters in its ranks- notably Old Republic and Resistance.
It's really not a big deal.

Sent from my R4 unit using Tapatalk
 

This is also how I see it...thanks for clarifying it bro'!

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On ‎22‎-‎6‎-‎2017 at 2:56 AM, Caomhanach said:

Sorry to say this but I have to say that I think a lot of this is our own fault... Some members were very elitist early own and disowned the HWT same as they disowned the SE Sandtrooper - they wanted us to be "pure" Sandtroopers and even think it was voted on more than once... Now all of sudden we want to jump on the bandwagon and claim a costume... Now I agree that the R1 Sandie should be here but let's leave all other conversations about the HWT in the past...


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True, I myself was convinced as well at that time that the MEPD should ony have TD's.  Now that we're further down the line and we have the new films/new characters, I've given it some thought again.

We need to realise as well that getting this done won't be a sprint race but more like a marathon. We need to learn from this as a detachment and learn from the whole process as it goes.

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