TK's being able to wear pauldrons being considered by legion

[hpdblues]

Troopers,

I would be guilty of dereliction of duty if I failed to address this issue with higher command. I will contact the DL about future discussions and the possibility of presenting a formal request to prohibit the use of pauldrons on any other uniform (in a canon or official event) other that on a SANDTROOPER.

Is this acceptable to the rank and file?

Tony

[Daetrin]

I think it's commendable for you to take the concerns of the detachment (presuming a majority of opinion) to the Legion, and it would - for me at least - be all that I could ask.

[TD2802]

Troopers,

I would be guilty of dereliction of duty if I failed to address this issue with higher command. I will contact the DL about future discussions and the possibility of presenting a formal request to prohibit the use of pauldrons on any other uniform (in a canon or official event) other that on a SANDTROOPER.

Is this acceptable to the rank and file?

Tony

On your six Tony for this one. The fact that the issue was ever raised at all by the legion's admin indicates the ambiguity of the matter. There is no such ambiguity at MEPD however - you either meet deployment standards for the archetypical TD or not. To resort to ephemeral EU comic refs for support is stretching it.

[SethB6025]

Okay, TK's will wear pauldrons whether their is a standard attached or not. If the legion can brand it as EU, it will prevent TK's from wearing them at official/canon events. Groove on that for a minute.

Alrighty then, Thomas asked for reference, not a theoretical debate. I have spoken to Tony as he prefaced earlier; and we will be taking your concerns to the council. Personally, I would urge everyone to take a deep breath and think about the point I brought up in the first paragraph. This could perspectively REDUCE the wearing of pauldrons by TKs. That's good if you ask me, which you didn't.

[TK9993]

I know I'm a little late to the discussion, but thought I'd just throw something in.

When I first started, no one came to me and told me about the pauldron thing. (of course, I'm the only TK/TD in town), but still.

When I first heard about it, it's what gave me the direction to WANT to be a TD.

Are some of those people who are wearing them even AWARE of what it means?

Just curious.

[cjfive]

Let me preface this by saying I do not have a TK/TD ID yet. Have my TD almost finished, just need to fix the thighs(way too small). I don't want to step on anyones toes, but I was under the immpression that the visual dictionary and other 'official' sources list the pauldrons as signs of rank. I did not remember it stating sandtrooper only equipment. If it does please correct me. To prohibt a person from wearing something that is shown in an official LFL/GL product is tantement to saying "if you don't follow the MEPD requirments then you can't be a TD" I understand the MEPDs view that to belong you have to meet very stringent requirments. But to say that those parts can only belong to the TD is a little bit out there. To quote the charter "The only requirements for membership are "ownership" of an accurate, complete, and professional-quality costume celebrating the Imperial (Dark Side) characters from the Star Wars films or its expanded universe sources..."

I personally like the customization of peoples armor. While they may not be appropriate at all cannon events, they are very much a part of the SW costuming family. And as another said, You always have the choice to troop with people or not to troop with them.

CJ

[TD7606]

ok, just a few points

1. It takes guts to cut your armor, make it dirty, change your knee, your lenses, time to build your backpack, to get your pauldron is really the easiest part of all.... do you remember how did you feel when you where going to cut your ab?

2. There´s no reason for a tk wearing a pauldron, just to look cool

3. I am looking for my third referense of a stormtrooper using a lightsaber to use it, as I said in the Legion forum hehehe

but now, being serious... its really kind of silly that adults are getting engry for a costume hehe I know... but what here are we discousing is that we have earned respect, we have worked hard for our suits, and many of us feel thats not fair whats going on... just to look cool

saying that... I pleny trust in set and guns

[hpdblues]

To quote the charter "The only requirements for membership are "ownership" of an accurate, complete, and professional-quality costume celebrating the Imperial (Dark Side) characters from the Star Wars films or its expanded universe sources..."

CJ

CJ,

You correct in that all you require for membership in the 501st IS a accurate, complete and professional-quality costume...

To obtain your TD designation you must meet the Legion's established criteria.

And yes you are correct that to be "MEPD-deployed" you must meet the higher standards that have been established here.

The present situation that we have now is that many "sandtroopers" feel that the pauldron should be considered a piece of equipment for TDs only. The majority of these same sandtroopers feel that the Legion should discourage TKs from wearing pauldrons period.

And you are also correct that your costume/uniform is YOURS for you to enjoy AND to equipment as you deem appropriate.

Remember that membership in the MEPD is voluntary. There are many 501st members who consider themselves sandtroopers who ARE NOT members of the MEPD Detachment.

Our detachment exists for those 501st members who elect to meet OR exceed the MEPD requirements for being a "TD SANDTROOPER MEPD-DEPLOYED".

[cjfive]

Guns,

I guess my problem is this. If you say, "Only TDs can wear pauldrons" are you next going to say, "Only TDs can carry BFGs" or "Only TDs can have flat lenses" or "only TDs that are dirty can have ab plates or sniper knees"? There is evidence of the TKs haveing access to BFGs in the original New hope, so doubt that would fly but does anyone have any screen caps of regular TKs haveing flat lenses? How about TXs? THose are based on EU so therefore by peoples views on here they shouldn't be accepted. Well guess I will have to melt down my Stealth trooper.

This situation is endemic of a wave that seems to be sweeping the 501st. Rather then trying to welcome people into the group it has become a case of people feeling that if you don't see the SW universe the way I see it that you can't come play. I don't mind the 501st wanting to keep the level of costuming at a high level. I think everyone should strive to have as accurate a set of armor as possible but at the same time personalization is great, especially when there is evidence to support it from official sources. If you want to limit the 501st to just the white armor variants and vader/the emperor well then go ahead and vote on it. I will continue to wear my Pauldron, both with my TK/TD and my TX because I personally think they look better with it. If that means I can't troop with x y or z, well then I guess I will have to miss out on it.

BTW just curiose...how many people have their weathering matching ANY screen cap? If not does that mean you aren't cannon and therefore shouldn't be deployed/member of the 501st? *shrug* the next step...must follow the pattorn of weathering seen on the screen...

Yes I do know that is a little out there...but who knows maybe it is the next step.

CJ

[tk-4224]

think this is not the question

they´re only asking for ref pics

maybe they wanna see only white troopers as TK in the member roster

or allow TK with pauldron in the member pics

it would be no problem fo me to take the pauldron off for the official pic in the roster

and no problem for me to put it on while troopin on some events

whatever they´re planing wouldn´t be a problem for me

but we should ever clearly see a difference between TD´s and TK´s

[IanL]

Maybe we should take this in a different direction. Encourage EVERYONE to wear a pauldron with their costume. I know it would look snappy with my snowtrooper (actually I considered it....). Rank is rank right? And to heck with what's shown on the screen....we wouldn't want to exclude anyone right?

I guess my point is, there must be a reason that Sandtroopers were issued pauldrons, and that no other TK's in the OT wore them. Maybe the TD's on Tattoine were the last holdovers from the Clone Wars and they are a variation of the Clonetrooper/ARC Trooper pauldrons we saw in ROTS. It would be nice to go back to 1976 and see what Lucas was going for in his mind. Maybe it has NOTHING to do with rank. What is it is a solar collector to power their gear, or a water storage pouch mounted in an interesting location? All of these would look silly placed on a TK on the Death Star or roaming around Endor. For now all we have is speculation, and a lot of ret-conning by various sources, visual dictionaries, etc. trying to attach a nice cozy explanation to everything we see in the movies.

[Daetrin]

Part of my very first reply on the legion boards is that it seems many TK's are trying to trick out their armor with pauldrons/TD kit just to add flavor / uniqueness / coolness. Maybe not, but this is the overwhelming reason I hear; that they feel like vanilla soldiers and nothing special. They want to feel special too in some way, making their armor stand out.

My push was why not just be proud to be a TK? Where is the feeling of inferiority coming from? There are many mods / accessories you can add to a TK to make it pretty cool and stand out from the FX crowd. You actually can use an MG-34 and be a TK, for instance.

To me the sanctity of the TD standard is only half of my reaction, the other being my personal belief that by trying to trick out TK's they actually detracting from the fidelity of that costume's standard, not add to it - effectively ruining two archetypes.

Perhaps if there were a TK Detachment to push the standards of what a good TK would be, they wouldn't feel so bottom of the barrel.

[Dirty Trooper]

TK's with pauldrons - no. I believe we should stick with the movies and NOWHERE in the movies do TK's wear pauldrons.

[Ilovesand&dirt]

Dude,

Don't melt your TX down. I have a Stealth Trooper as well. I have fought the EU fight with people in my area. So I definately understand the debate. I wouldn't wear a pauldron with a TK but I would wear one with my clean TD. Actually did before I got it dirty. TDs had to be clean before they hit the sands of Tatooine. But at the same time I wouldn't say anything to anyone who was wearing a pauldron on a TK, hey, its their costume. psssst-I also wear a pauldron on my TX, just try and sue me.

Guns,

I guess my problem is this. If you say, "Only TDs can wear pauldrons" are you next going to say, "Only TDs can carry BFGs" or "Only TDs can have flat lenses" or "only TDs that are dirty can have ab plates or sniper knees"? There is evidence of the TKs haveing access to BFGs in the original New hope, so doubt that would fly but does anyone have any screen caps of regular TKs haveing flat lenses? How about TXs? THose are based on EU so therefore by peoples views on here they shouldn't be accepted. Well guess I will have to melt down my Stealth trooper.

This situation is endemic of a wave that seems to be sweeping the 501st. Rather then trying to welcome people into the group it has become a case of people feeling that if you don't see the SW universe the way I see it that you can't come play. I don't mind the 501st wanting to keep the level of costuming at a high level. I think everyone should strive to have as accurate a set of armor as possible but at the same time personalization is great, especially when there is evidence to support it from official sources. If you want to limit the 501st to just the white armor variants and vader/the emperor well then go ahead and vote on it. I will continue to wear my Pauldron, both with my TK/TD and my TX because I personally think they look better with it. If that means I can't troop with x y or z, well then I guess I will have to miss out on it.

BTW just curiose...how many people have their weathering matching ANY screen cap? If not does that mean you aren't cannon and therefore shouldn't be deployed/member of the 501st? *shrug* the next step...must follow the pattorn of weathering seen on the screen...

Yes I do know that is a little out there...but who knows maybe it is the next step.

CJ

[hpdblues]

Guns,

I guess my problem is this. If you say, "Only TDs can wear pauldrons" are you next going to say, "Only TDs can carry BFGs" or "Only TDs can have flat lenses" or "only TDs that are dirty can have ab plates or sniper knees"? There is evidence of the TKs haveing access to BFGs in the original New hope, so doubt that would fly but does anyone have any screen caps of regular TKs haveing flat lenses? How about TXs? THose are based on EU so therefore by peoples views on here they shouldn't be accepted. Well guess I will have to melt down my Stealth trooper.

This situation is endemic of a wave that seems to be sweeping the 501st. Rather then trying to welcome people into the group it has become a case of people feeling that if you don't see the SW universe the way I see it that you can't come play. I don't mind the 501st wanting to keep the level of costuming at a high level. I think everyone should strive to have as accurate a set of armor as possible but at the same time personalization is great, especially when there is evidence to support it from official sources. If you want to limit the 501st to just the white armor variants and vader/the emperor well then go ahead and vote on it. I will continue to wear my Pauldron, both with my TK/TD and my TX because I personally think they look better with it. If that means I can't troop with x y or z, well then I guess I will have to miss out on it.

BTW just curiose...how many people have their weathering matching ANY screen cap? If not does that mean you aren't cannon and therefore shouldn't be deployed/member of the 501st? *shrug* the next step...must follow the pattorn of weathering seen on the screen...

Yes I do know that is a little out there...but who knows maybe it is the next step.

CJ

CJ,

Amigo, yes that may or may not happen. It is not up for vote at the moment and an issue of this scope will ultimately be decided by the membership AND the leadership working together for a solution. I was never good at playing the "what if" game.

Personally, if other characters choose to add "equipment" and "props" to uniforms that they own, THAT is their business and I RESPECT that. My good friend and fellow Pacific Outpost crewmember is a TX AND he wears a pauldron - he looks quite impressive too I might add. I (again me personally) have no problem with that AND to make this perfectly clear to all...I DON'T HAVE A PROBLEM WITH TKs WEARING PAULDRONS; as long as current established guidelines don't discourage it, then happy days!

For those who've known me for any length of time, know that I spend the majority of my time here on sandtrooper.net. THIS IS MY HOME IT IS! When I joined the Legion I joined as a clean TK wearing FX armor. Prior to the May 2005 premiere of EPIII, I purchased my first TE armor and went TD (with the TE Marmit-style backpack too) going that "extra mile" to become "MEPD-Deployed" - which IMHO, is quite an honor. Besides being the "senior" sandtrooper currently on this board (in age only - 49!) and self-proclaimed "#1 sandtrooper cheerleader", I was honored at being chosen to be the current executive officer; again, an HONOR that I hold very close to my heart! So my obligation is to represent MEPD TDs in the very best manner available to me.

I firmly believe that those 501st members who volunteer to become MEPD-Deployed do so because of the unique challenge that this detachment represents...no other detachment that I know of requires you to modify your armor as required here. (An Imperial medal of honor to those who have the courage to "DIRTY-UP" their investment is in order)

As far as canon vs. non-canon (a subject as old as the Republic itself) it is a pursuit of a dream, a goal to strive for. Again, my opinion: It is a journey to be enjoyed.

I apologize for being so wordy on this however, until the Legion discourages the use or wear of certain equipment/props on costumes/uniforms, the sky is the limit. With that said, once the charter reflects ANY firm rule or guideline, I would then expect ALL to fall in ranks and carry on.

In closing, I said this earlier on another post:

"Place a pauldron on a clean TK and you have a TK wearing a pauldron. Place a pauldron on a TK who has "DIRTY" armor; a bucket devoid of vertical hash marks; has modified lens; has a plain ab plate (remember sandtroopers came first); is not wearing drop boxes; is wearing ammo pouches; has a sniper diamond knee plate; has a BFG; AND is lugging around a backpack, you have a TD SANDTROOPER!" (Emphasis here: No where did I say a trooper should not enjoy his or her armor )

ePS: Remember the opinion expressed here is my own and in no way reflect those of the management and or the sponsors of this website.

[The Dirty Trooper]

Sorry gang,

I just had to join in the affray...

"Quote" While I have no reference material to offer as the author of this thread had originally requested, I would ask for your patience while I offer my two Imperial Credits on the subject of pauldrons.

When you place a pauldron (orange, white, or black) on a stormtrooper you have a TK wearing a pauldron.

When you place a pauldron on a stormtrooper that's DIRTY; has a plain ab plate (remember sandtroopers came first); has a diamond sniper knee plate; a bucket devoid of the vertical "hash marks"; isn't wearing drop-boxes; is wearing ammo pouches; is armed with a BFG; AND is lugging around a backpack, you have a TD!

Plus, I'm willing to bet a dollar to a doughnut hole that this same TD is a card-carrying-member of the MEPD.

Personally, I feel that pauldrons should be left to the sandtroopers. But until this organization institutes a policy discouraging pauldrons on TKs, then the general membership will continue to use this "grey area" to their collective benefit. Carry on! "Unquote"

I like your way of thinking

[TD5422]

I do not think TK's should be wearing a pauldron.

That said...

I (IMO) believe there are only stormtroopers, one kind. They get issued different equipment as needed. The nature of the desert planets showed the need for an environment pack. Cold planets need different equipment.

I do not think the "Snowtroopers" are sitting around the ship collecting dust or getting drunk waiting for an "icy" planet to be attacked or garrisoned. the same for the TD's, unless during the battle for Hoth they were chillin' watching the battle on TV.

I think Lucas realized that the troopers running around on the deathstar would look silly wearing a pack ( and Pauldron) and would knock everyone over in the tight quarters.

As a kid I remember thinking the orange pauldron was being worn because the trooper was directing traffic, much like the cops where I lived.

Lastly, I think anyone who is a memeber of the 501st should post their opinion there, whether or not someone agrees with it. Just try to stay rational and not flame people

[The Dirty Trooper]

As one of 3 sandtrooper's from the UK I have TOLD the tk's NOT to wear one. mainly because it doesn't look right. What we need it a solid 501st rule.

[clutch]

I would be embarrassed to be seen with a pauldron on my TK. I don't remember any running around the Deathstar with one on.

[Daetrin]

To me this is one more reason why MEPD standards should remain high.

[Voice in the crowd]

does anyone have any screen caps of regular TKs haveing flat lenses?

Almost all the stormtrooper helmets have flat lenses TK and TD approximately 50 of them (all stunt helmets). Only a few Hero helmets had bubble lenses I think about 6 were made the Hero helmets are worn by Han and Luke and are seen a couple of other times elsewhere in the film.

Personally I don't like seeing TKs with pauldrons and ammo pouches but its just a personal preference thing.

Cheers Chris.

[TD-4242]

The funny thing about this argument is as a Sandtrooper I couldn't give an f less if they want to wear pauldrons.

When it really upsets me is when I wear my clean set of armor. I am trying to set an image of a bunch of exactly like troopers. And these people with the pauldrons are trying to set them selves apart by wearing this and it really screws up the image. Clean white Troopers were ment to all look the same.

Just my 2 cents worth.

[TK-VADER312]

put on dirt= earn a pauldren!!!

[gonk27]

To quote the charter "The only requirements for membership are "ownership" of an accurate, complete, and professional-quality costume celebrating the Imperial (Dark Side) characters from the Star Wars films or its expanded universe sources..."

CJ

CJ,

You correct in that all you require for membership in the 501st IS a accurate, complete and professional-quality costume...

To obtain your TD designation you must meet the Legion's established criteria.

Hi guys

First, let me start by saying, I got no Bantha in this fight, I don't have a sandy yet, I'm not a 501st member, I'm here because I'm a fan of troopers in all their incarnations so basically the issue of pauldron or no pauldron doesn't affect me.

However, it seems to me that by the letter of the (501st) law as it stands, if the quote above is correct then pauldrons on a TK are perfectly acceptable because it doesn't specify that costumes have to be exclusively SCREEN accurate. As it doesn't exclude published books/comics etc they would seem to be a fair source of reference.

Perhaps the Legion needs to re-phrase their charter to be more specific? (from the title of this thread it looks like they might be) the difficulty is if they alter their wording to base their membership requirements exclusively on 'screen' accuracy only, then things like visible Imperial cogs and Aubresh text on armour is out.. etc etc..

I'm sure this point has been made endlessly elsewhere, I just didn't see it pointed out here that's all! It's not a life or death issue though is it?

*ducks quickly!*

Jeremy

[hpdblues]

GRRRRRRRRR....

Where's my blaster!!!!!!

T