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TK's being able to wear pauldrons being considered by legion


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Interesting topic in regards to TK's wearing pauldrons going on, the legion membership officer is considering whether to allow TK's to wear pauldrons and is looking for reference material to support allowing them to wear pauldrons. You might want to chime in with your opinions on whether TK's should be allowed to wear them or if its a TD piece of gear. The discussion is going on over at the legion website http://www.501stforums.com/forum/viewtopic...der=asc&start=0

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OFFICIAL PROTEST!

Well fellow Sandies,

IMHO It looks as if the Dark Horse comics are going to kill the TD only pauldron wearing in the legion - I can't wait for the SL's and all the other designations to get overly technical and ruin the unique and elite qualities of their own designations (funny how the TK's using Dark Horse comics for reference are ignoring the blatent inaccuracies of the rendered armor - I.E. Malformed cheek tubes, incorrect hand guards, etc..). this situation is irritating at best, and at least - it is subversive and undermining to the rest of the TD's that have put their blood and sweat into making their armor as film accurate as possible. Clean TK's who insist in wearing pauldrons simply lack the dedication to go all the way, sort of like the polictician class of the legion...

Now that we have stood by as long as we have and tolerated the clean troopers wearing pauldrons, they are now forcing a change in Legion Policy to fully accomodate their flagrant disregard of accepted standards in order to have it both ways. I am very quickly becoming disillusioned by the latest inner-workings of the Legion.... Seems very High-School clicky... Thank the maker for MEPD! This is as diverse a bunch of troopers as there are from all sorts of backgrounds and I am PROUD to be a member with all of you...

..."Now, just how to actually get the Legion to STOP this madness!.."

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Comics as supporting ref? Weak. Kinda reminds me of the argument that since Fred Flintstone had Dino as a pet than people must've existed at the same time as dinosaurs

My opinion is that if the legion allows TKs with pauldrons based on a similar rationale, it would still exclude them from MEPD membership. Hope that's not being overly harsh to our TK comrades/pauldrons but I think a distinction should be made between the higher MEPD standards and the legion's.

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They are looking solely at EU trooper material, so even if it's "good" it'll still be dodgy. I think the downfall is that they are setting a precedent that a comic book is on the same level as the film. That for me, is really the exeption rather than the rule. Oh, well, whatever happens we'll have the MEPD, based solely on Original (non-SE) Trilogy movie reference. We've raised the bar, now all we've got to do it hold it there.

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Sorry gang,

I just had to join in the affray...

"Quote" While I have no reference material to offer as the author of this thread had originally requested, I would ask for your patience while I offer my two Imperial Credits on the subject of pauldrons.

When you place a pauldron (orange, white, or black) on a stormtrooper you have a TK wearing a pauldron.

When you place a pauldron on a stormtrooper that's DIRTY; has a plain ab plate (remember sandtroopers came first); has a diamond sniper knee plate; a bucket devoid of the vertical "hash marks"; isn't wearing drop-boxes; is wearing ammo pouches; is armed with a BFG; AND is lugging around a backpack, you have a TD!

Plus, I'm willing to bet a dollar to a doughnut hole that this same TD is a card-carrying-member of the MEPD.

Personally, I feel that pauldrons should be left to the sandtroopers. But until this organization institutes a policy discouraging pauldrons on TKs, then the general membership will continue to use this "grey area" to their collective benefit. Carry on! "Unquote"

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this is thin ice....

well ok... lets say that we "ignore" to all the TK´s with pauldrons... until there is a real policy and OFICIAL porlicy in the Legion.... what will happen when it becomes reallity this pollicy with all the TK´s who have pauldrons?, they will be a lot and they just do not will want to drop their pauldorns.... then It will have to stay like that because it will have a lot of suporters...

well... my point is, If we do not protest now, latter will be too late, later they will want to wear backpacks???? and said they are space TKs?????

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I've made my feelings known on the 501st boards. It may seem extreme, but personally I don't see having differences of opinions or arguing as a negative, e.g. I think arguing is healthy (remember that line from Jerry McGuire?).

In the end everyone's costume is their own, and they can do what they want.

But...I would say that now is a great time to express your opinion on those boards. If you do not then you'll have no right to complain when someone enacts a policy contrary to your beliefs.

I think the downfall is that they are setting a precedent that a comic book is on the same level as the film. That for me, is really the exeption rather than the rule.

Well said! Perhaps in the end there should be a split on costume quality, e.g. film vs. EU. This way people who prefer film "canon" can do their thing, and people who like "EU" canon can do thiers.

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I was thinking. Since the argument is that the Comic Books and other EU sources are Lucasfilm approved, couldn't the same argument be made in other areas/designateions. Example:

SL designations and the Legion do not officially recognize nor accept the standard Rubies DV helmets (voice changer model included). BUT, since each of these is Lucasfilm approved costume material, the same standard and logic MUST be applied towards the SL designation as is being seen towards the pauldron/ non-pauldron issue. I was thinking of floating this one on the 501st board, just to hear the howls of indignation from the hard-core SL's that also happen to be making the argument for Pauldron TK's... What's good for the goose.....

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Ok fellow troops - please pre-read this and let me know if you think it's OK to post on 501st... I don't want to sound too sarcastiuc, but I need some feedback, so I don't get sanctioned or anything nasty.... Please PM me with some thumbs up or down...

----------------------------suggested posting---------------------

I know this may seem to be argumentative, but don't take it personally - this is MO, and hey - I have been known to be wrong a time or two (hundred?) in my life. But I just have to speak out...

Well, well, well

How quickly we just absolve ourselves of years of committed standards, just so we can satisfy some need to bend the rules for a few non-canon TK's who want their clean armor, but also want to distinguish themselves without really committing to going Sandy all the way. If you are going use the Dark Horse example as what is accepted Legion Standard, so be it. But be forewarned - If this is the case, the argument should be followed through to it's logical even-handed application to all designations (SL's, TB's et al) - be prepared to allow helmets with cheek tubes that are completely wrong, hand guards that are wrong, etc..

You don't want to accept this rational because it isn't convenient for the argument that TK's should be allowed to wear pauldrons and now maybe backpacks? (according to some references also)..

What the heck, since it must be accepted since the EU is Lucas approved - does that also mean the the SL designees that have put blood sweat and tears into their wonderful armor should have their designation diluted by RUBIES or DV Voice changer helmets (After all, to use the same rationalization - These types of Helmets are Lucas approved, and therefore it must be OK'd to Legion Standards)....????

I know what we can do - while we are at it, let's dig out all of the old poorly printed 70's SW comics and a copy of Splinter of the Mind's eye - It was all approved and can be considered EU - so I say let's just have a standards free-for all for every designation and not just make an exception for a few people who are unable to take their non screen-accurate pauldrons off...

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A-Man,

While I sincerely respect AND appreciate your POV, I believe that the author of the thread in question Thomas SPANOS, 501st LMO, is only working for the "common good" of all 501st members. He was only inquiring about sources (ANY source) showing TK stormtroopers with pauldrons.

Kevin CHRISTLEY is one individual who has provided Thomas with the information he was asking for.

While I agree with you in essence, I remind myself that this organization is run by different individuals, all with different POVs thus everyone will interpret the information available very differently.

GL and LFL are the "villians" where accuracy & consistency count. People are flawed my friend...no one is perfect and GL did not produce "perfect" movies.

You have voiced your opinion here on sandtrooper.net and I don't feel the need for you to place your post on the Legion boards however, that is entirely up to you amigo.

I believe that the MEPD and the other detachments in the 501st truly exist for those (like you AND me) who endeavor to take their "costuming" to the next level. What I'm trying to say is to be content with the knowledge that you, and the rest of your comrades here on sandtrooper.net know the difference and can appreciate the difference but at the same time, allowing other members to enjoy their costumes AND characters as they deem appropriate.

Tony SAGUN

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GUNS,

Thanks man. It's always good to have some feedback when one's opinion is involved, and I appreciate it. I will definitely reflect on this more before stating anything on the 501st board.......

As the PFLP/PLFP say - "Solidarity!"

- The Life of Brian

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A-Man,

I believe that the MEPD and the other detachments in the 501st truly exist for those (like you AND me) who endeavor to take their "costuming" to the next level. What I'm trying to say is to be content with the knowledge that you, and the rest of your comrades here on sandtrooper.net know the difference and can appreciate the difference but at the same time, allowing other members to enjoy their costumes AND characters as they deem appropriate.

Tony SAGUN

Gee, I remember when the 501st use to take their "costuming" to the next level. Now were looking at comic books to justify diluting that level of professionalism. Sad, very sad. To stand by and not say anything is to be part of the problem.

Avatar man you brought up an excellent point in my opinion.

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A-Man,

I believe that the MEPD and the other detachments in the 501st truly exist for those (like you AND me) who endeavor to take their "costuming" to the next level. What I'm trying to say is to be content with the knowledge that you, and the rest of your comrades here on sandtrooper.net know the difference and can appreciate the difference but at the same time, allowing other members to enjoy their costumes AND characters as they deem appropriate.

Tony SAGUN

Gee, I remember when the 501st use to take their "costuming" to the next level. Now were looking at comic books to justify diluting that level of professionalism. Sad, very sad. To stand by and not say anything is to be part of the problem.

Avatar man you brought up an excellent point in my opinion.

Chris,

It certainly would be a battle worth fighting IF the lines were drawn a little bit more clearly. GL himself had "blurred" the lines by adding the SE scenes to ANH with sandtroopers with drop-boxes AND those funny looking backpacks. Quality control in the storyline??? Clean SE stormtroopers in Mos Eisley? TKs wearing pauldrons???

This is the main reason why I won't continue the discussion. I cannot present any evidence that prohibits TKs from wearing pauldrons. All I can do is to present the best "sandtrooper" character I can offer when trooping here in Hawaii. Can't ask a trooper to do more than that.

As I stated earlier, the decision to present his opinion on the 501st is entirely up to A-Man.

Tony SAGUN

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I understand your position Tony. It just irritates me that the legion didn't put a stop to this when it started and now there are a bunch of people that slap different parts of costumes together and figure that they saw it in a comic so it must be fine. Most if not all of the referance material that is being used to support TK's wearing pauldrons was written by those that had no understanding of their use and thought it looked cool to slap one on. Its the same with boob armor for example. I bet if I wanted to spend the time and effort i could find 3 examples with all the comics out there and present it to the legion. With 3 examples I could get it made an acceptable costume. How would that look? Not very good but when you start the trend with pauldrons where does it stop?

I feel the MEPD, expecially our leadership, should be activly persuing this matter with the legion leadership. If these guys want to wear them at non canon or non official events then I really don't care as I know what is right (just look at the kilted troopers) but at least on the website have the TK's wearing pauldrons resubmitt pictures without pauldrons. Or if there are official legion or garrison pictures being taken have them removed off the TK's. Is not the legion looking to the detachments such as ours, the sith lords and others to get guidance from them as to what the standards are for their respective costumes? If so we should stress that they are part of a TD's costume, not a TK's.

Am i being protective of our right to wear pauldrons? Heck yea. Pretty soon TK's are going to be slapping on backpacks also (actually I have seen this done allready) and ammo pouches, there was referance material to support that posted in that thread. Pretty soon the only difference is going to be that we put on some dirt so what incentive will there be to become a TD?

Anyways, peace brother TD, i will quite rambling on now.

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I was thinking. Since the argument is that the Comic Books and other EU sources are Lucasfilm approved, couldn't the same argument be made in other areas/designateions. Example:

SL designations and the Legion do not officially recognize nor accept the standard Rubies DV helmets (voice changer model included). BUT, since each of these is Lucasfilm approved costume material, the same standard and logic MUST be applied towards the SL designation as is being seen towards the pauldron/ non-pauldron issue. I was thinking of floating this one on the 501st board, just to hear the howls of indignation from the hard-core SL's that also happen to be making the argument for Pauldron TK's... What's good for the goose.....

I think you are confusing two issues. Rubies costumes and helmets are being made and sold by a licensed Lucasfilm vendor. This has nothing to do whether these items are acceptable to wear as a member of the 501st costuming group as we/they set their own standards of acceptability. The fact something says LFL Approved does not give it carte blanche to be accepted here and 99% of the time it is not.

The issue of TK's wearing pauldrons is not a licensing issue. It is merely a backdoor attempt to circumvent the standards set forth in the 501st Charter, namely that all costumes must be screen accurate. Since no one can provide a movie still from any of the 6 movies showing a TK (on the Death Star, Star Destroyer, Bespin or Endor) wearing a pauldron, the proponents are going to Step B, which is the basis for non-movie costumes, and seeking out other visual references to support their claim. If it can be shown in comics, books, etc. that standard stormtroopers also wore pauldrons on duty, then there would be sufficient basis to permit it. I agree it's a slippery slope, but it's also fair to other 501st/prospective members who wish to make an approved Darth Revan or Mara Jade costume, for example.

Personally I think it looks silly to slap a pauldron on a clean TK. Kind of like putting spinner wheels on your car, I guess.

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501st costuming group as we/they set their own standards of acceptability. The fact something says LFL Approved does not give it carte blanche to be accepted here and 99% of the time it is not.

The issue of TK's wearing pauldrons is not a licensing issue. It is merely a backdoor attempt to circumvent the standards set forth in the 501st Charter,

I think thisis really the crux of the issue. It doesn't really matter what LFL says or does. We are an indepent costuming club and get to choose our standards.

I cannot present any evidence that prohibits TKs from wearing pauldrons. All I can do is to present the best "sandtrooper" character I can offer when trooping here in Hawaii. Can't ask a trooper to do more than that.

Tony, I love you like a brother, and while I can totally see you reasoning it really comes down to the quote from IanL above.

The Bottom Line is that it's a question of where we draw the line. Why *not* let Rebel costumes in? Why not just become a full out SW costuming club? There really is no reason why we shouldn't.

In the end I really do believe the 501st and the Rebels should come together organizationally, then split itself into three parts:

1) Film based Imperianls

2) Film based Rebels

3) EU

Let each have their own space. While I did say it's each individual's own costume, I also have a choice to troop with whom I want as well.

Would you troop with someone who's costume was so inaccurate it looked horrible? Probably not. So you're making choices too. And you can choose to troop with TK's with pauldrons or not.

There's no magic number about three either. It's an arbitrary number we as the Legion chose.

So we're back to square #1: it really doesn't matter what LFL says outside the fims, we choose what we consider correct or not.

In this case, personally, I know what I choose to consider correct.

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Yo' IanL, wha's wrong with puttin sinners on yo' ride.

Especially those 30"+ rims. That's so "donk"!

I thought spinners were so 2002 anyway. I hate it when your wheels cost more than the s-box car you put them on

Back on topic now...

Agreed!!!
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