Jump to content

Original helmets and suits.. just FYI for you all


trooperexpert
 Share

Recommended Posts

Here is a list of the known helmets and suits out in the world (collectors hands). I do know peoples names but to be nice, I will not name them.

ANH:

Standard helmet (TE #1)

"set for Stun' helmet (TE #2)

one stunt helmet in the LFL archives (5 holed version)

One Jason Joiner restored (BADLY should not have been done)

One ANH Hero in LFL archives (NOT Mark Hamill's helmet)

One ANH helmet (0wned by Mark Hamill Not sure of version)

Stop that ship sandtrooper helmet (screenused.com)

Move along helmet (bought at Christies auction)

Suits:

LFL has 6 suits and one IS Mark Hamills suit, as it is cut down and smaller for the chest and other parts. I found this one while at the archives with the other 5.

to date, no suits or parts have surfaced. Sad.. :(

ESB

2 helmets known to exhist sold via auction

One ESB head to toe suit sold at Christies auction house in 1998. Owner is unknown and has never been able to be identified

ROTJ

19 helmets and suits in the LFL archives. I found, handled and identified all of these for them while there this last year. Most of the helmets are white, maybe one or two beige ones. The armor is all white that we found.

there are at least 3 known in the LA area.

There is one in NY

One in Maryland

There are 2-3 in England

one in the US at an undisclosed location

There are more but the ROTJ helmets change hands so often it is hard to keep track sometimes. I did know where 10-12 were once, but that was a while ago.

ROTJ Suits

There was one sold in minnesota of all places in 1999 and it has never been seen since. I had the pics of it and lost it in a hard drive accident.

There is the one I used to own at an undisclosed location and I may be buying it back! WOOHOO!

There is the one in the UK that is not screen used, but still considered real since it is mostly identical to how the originals were assembled and strapped. Taking nothing away from it, it is still a great piece and worth having.

Robert Watts production designer and 2nd unit director of ROTJ has a head to toe suit in his collection and it can be seen behind him on the empire of dreams dvd.

So, thats basically it.. if we find more, nice to add them to the list. So buy them when you find them!

Matt/STE

Link to comment
Share on other sites

For those of you who don't know... There's a reason that he went by the moniker of TE of so many years.

Matt - I hope that you are able to buy back the suit that you owned. That would be awesome. A dream come true if it happened to me...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Interesting thread Matt...

There are also 2 full ROTJ suits at The Museum of the Moving Image here in the UK, and I.L.M. have one on a mannequin in their offices (not in a private collection I know, but still outside the Archives )

ROTJ

There is the one in the UK that is not screen used, but still considered real since it is mostly identical to how the originals were assembled and strapped. Taking nothing away from it, it is still a great piece and worth having.

Hhmmmm.... I'm not sure where you're getting your information from on this one...

I'm the proud owner of this 90% ROTJ costume (missing the forearms and handplates) and whilst there is no proof that it was screen-used, the same can be said of ALL ROTJ trooper helmets / costumes as NONE have been screen-matched in the way that some of the ANH and ESB helmets have.

Posted ImagePosted Image

As my trooper costume is a background studio veriant, created for the Death Star docking bay scenes in ROTJ, the interior of the helmet is different from the 'location' helmets used in the Crescent City / Smith River location filming for the Endor scenes.

However I can confirm that the interior of my helmet is a 100% match for the other 2 known background ROTJ trooper helmets in the UK (both owners were kind enough to supply me with detailed pics of their helmets' interiors to assist me in authenticating my helmet when I went to view it)

Posted Image

In a nutshell my costume may or may not have been screen-used.... the costume's origin and helmet's interior would lead me to believe that it was, but I guess we'll never know

Cheers,

John[/img]

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There are also 2 full ROTJ suits at The Museum of the Moving Image here in the UK

I can confirm that, I saw them in person and up close too when I was in London.

From what I could tell the suits looked like background studio suits as well.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

John,

Does one of those ROTJ suit's at the Museum of the Moving Image have what looks like a black rubber band or inner tube for a brow trim?

I think the one I saw in Sheffield Film Exhibition was on loan from the museum.It was a full suit (minus boots) with metal blaster and looked awesome.

-Paul.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

John,

Does one of those ROTJ suit's at the Museum of the Moving Image have what looks like a black rubber band or inner tube for a brow trim?

I think the one I saw in Sheffield Film Exhibition was on loan from the museum.It was a full suit (minus boots) with metal blaster and looked awesome.

-Paul.

Well I'm not John , but I can confirm you that you're right about the brow trim.

Cheers

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks for the confirmation Anthony

I'll have to dig out all my photos I took of that suit,heck I even filmed it

No problem Paul, I'd sur love to see your pics, if you could send me some I'd really appreciate it.

Is the Museum of the Moving Image still open in London? I tried to look it up but it said it closed in 1999 has it shut permanently or just moved?

Anyone know?

I would love to see these suits if they are still on display somewhere.

Cheers Chris.

Chris,

Unfortunately the museum is closed, I know the Moving Image was on tour in 2002 and they had one of the ROTJ troopers with them, probably the one Paul saw too.

I was there twice in the late 90's. Those suits are awesome a 100 time better than the tour suits I saw in SW exhibits.

Cheers.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It is a great thread! Thanks!

The info on your suit is based on the detective work I did at LFL last year and my findings on all the ROTJ suits in the archives and also the helmets. The lower legs are not assembled the way the screen used ones are, and NONE, I repeat NONE of the helmets there had foam. I held and examined all 19 helmets in my hands while there.

I know you have said that the stage helmets had them.. I do not support this theaory as I have seen and hand;led 2 stage helmets and they had the suspensions syetems in it. The most likely theory that I and others subscribe to is this: Since the suit you got came from a promoter, and LFL was vehemetly against loaning out screen used or selling screen used costumes back then after ESB, it is more than likely a tour suit.

Now, here is the cool part. The suit coming off of the same molds means it is identical, made and assembled by the same people means a lot too. But one former LFL employee has said he wore a screen used suit and the strapping does not match and I was able to verify this while at the archives. Your suits is bettter and more involved. My only guess is that they had to make 100% certain the suits stayed on the actors and pieces did not shift while in public.

We may never know, but I am investigating this more with LFL right now and trying to find an answer, if one exhists. I hope it turns out to be, but my experience, the different way it is assembled, lack of markings in the legs and also helmet and paint variances says otherwise. And again, taking nothing away from the suit, it is a killer piece.

The quest for knowledge continues.

Matt/STE

Interesting thread Matt...

There are also 2 full ROTJ suits at The Museum of the Moving Image here in the UK, and I.L.M. have one on a mannequin in their offices (not in a private collection I know, but still outside the Archives )

ROTJ

There is the one in the UK that is not screen used, but still considered real since it is mostly identical to how the originals were assembled and strapped. Taking nothing away from it, it is still a great piece and worth having.

Hhmmmm.... I'm not sure where you're getting your information from on this one...

I'm the proud owner of this 90% ROTJ costume (missing the forearms and handplates) and whilst there is no proof that it was screen-used, the same can be said of ALL ROTJ trooper helmets / costumes as NONE have been screen-matched in the way that some of the ANH and ESB helmets have.

Posted ImagePosted Image

As my trooper costume is a background studio veriant, created for the Death Star docking bay scenes in ROTJ, the interior of the helmet is different from the 'location' helmets used in the Crescent City / Smith River location filming for the Endor scenes.

However I can confirm that the interior of my helmet is a 100% match for the other 2 known background ROTJ trooper helmets in the UK (both owners were kind enough to supply me with detailed pics of their helmets' interiors to assist me in authenticating my helmet when I went to view it)

Posted Image

In a nutshell my costume may or may not have been screen-used.... the costume's origin and helmet's interior would lead me to believe that it was, but I guess we'll never know

Cheers,

John[/img]

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi Matt,

Thanks for the input, but there are a couple of points that you made which seem a little odd...

You said that my ROTJ suit came from "a promoter", but this is not the case... the previous owner of the suit was a private individual who was/is employed in the movie industry here in the UK.

Also I don't think I've ever revealed details of the suit's strapping system, so there is no way to say if it matches the location suits' strapping or not... personally I would doubt it as the insides of the helmets are different so the same is likley for the armour itself. Ditto for the lower legs being assembled differently, as you claim.

You say that the ROTJ helmets you have handled all had hard-hat suspension systems in 'em, so they must all be 'location' helmets - I doubt that there are any background studio helmets at the Archives... these were 'lesser' helmets remember, and I can't see why LFL would bring any of them back to the US after filming wrapped in the UK

Remember, these costumes were merely intended as 'window dressing' behind Vader and Jerjerrod... the actors stood motionless and weren't required to turn their heads or run and jump like the stormtrooper actors on the location shoot, so there is no chin-strap or hard-hat liner inside the background 'studio' helmets.

You say that you have seen 2 'stage' helmets but if they were the real deal then they would have one specific feature in the inside that no other type of Stormtrooper helmet has... not ANH, not ESB and not ROTJ 'location' helmets.

This feature is not widely known and for this reason I won't reveal what it is, but it is instantly noticeable and is present on Propmaster's helmet which originated from a stormtrooper actor here in the UK, and also on the Restoration helmet which was taken directly off the Death Star set at Elstree.

Feel free to email me at john@manicminer.plus.com if you think you know what this feature is, and I'll be happy to confirm it for you.

So is my ROTJ Stormtrooper costume screen-used or not? Incredibly hard to say either way... based on the points I've outlined above, it seems it probably was. Unfortunately, comparing it's features to those of 'location' stormtrooper costumes is like comparing apples with pears, and until someone proves that purpose-made Tour suits existed in the early 80's we must assume that this was indeed a 'background studio' suit, with a helmet identical to the other 2 which originated from the Elstree set.

While we may not agree on the costume's history, it certainly is fun trying to put together all the pieces...

Cheers,

John

It is a great thread! Thanks!

The info on your suit is based on the detective work I did at LFL last year and my findings on all the ROTJ suits in the archives and also the helmets. The lower legs are not assembled the way the screen used ones are, and NONE, I repeat NONE of the helmets there had foam. I held and examined all 19 helmets in my hands while there.

I know you have said that the stage helmets had them.. I do not support this theaory as I have seen and hand;led 2 stage helmets and they had the suspensions syetems in it. The most likely theory that I and others subscribe to is this: Since the suit you got came from a promoter, and LFL was vehemetly against loaning out screen used or selling screen used costumes back then after ESB, it is more than likely a tour suit.

Now, here is the cool part. The suit coming off of the same molds means it is identical, made and assembled by the same people means a lot too. But one former LFL employee has said he wore a screen used suit and the strapping does not match and I was able to verify this while at the archives. Your suits is bettter and more involved. My only guess is that they had to make 100% certain the suits stayed on the actors and pieces did not shift while in public.

We may never know, but I am investigating this more with LFL right now and trying to find an answer, if one exhists. I hope it turns out to be, but my experience, the different way it is assembled, lack of markings in the legs and also helmet and paint variances says otherwise. And again, taking nothing away from the suit, it is a killer piece.

The quest for knowledge continues.

Matt/STE

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The 2 set helmets are both beige and they are identically built to the location helmets. All the helmets, regardless of where they came from that I have seen but one has a name in it.

I have seen other helmets that are beige and they are all built with the suspension system inside as well. It IS possible what you have is a helmet from another suit... My suit was used in one scene only when the emperor arrives. I do know LFL did not make the suits in the US as bermans and nathans made them.. so anything they used in the UK was shipped over. They did it for the ewok costumes and others.. so it had to be more cost effective than making all new stuff.

I have seen pics when the suit you have was offered to me and a buddy in 1999 and the pics show someone wearing the suit in front of a fence in backyard. In some of the shots we saw the strapping system.

At that time the suit was being offered by someone and we were told up to the point where you got it that it was being offered by the person that had a promotional company back in the day.. passing on what we know and were told is all.

Again, we may never know, but I am talking to people to find out what the 411 is on all ROTJ stuff.

As for the inside, no clue. Since all the helmets I have seen are both beige and white and are made the same way. So, I would not call this a decideing factor as being real, but more like a factor that all three share at this point.

Matt

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The 2 set helmets are both beige and they are identically built to the location helmets.

Haven't you got that the wrong way around Matt? It's widely accepted that the location helmets were off-white or beige as the strong California sunshine would have been too dazzling, if the armour had been white.

It was, in fact, the studio stormtrooper armour that was white, so it's likely that the 2 helmets which you believe to be studio helmets, are in fact location helmets.

There's no doubt that Brandon's helmet is off-white/beige and it was obtained directly from Smith River / Crescent City.

I do know LFL did not make the suits in the US as bermans and nathans made them..

I don't think it's ever been proven that B&N fabricated the ROTJ stormtrooper costumes? All the other SW costumes that they made were 'soft parts' and had a Berman & Nathans costume label on them...

I believe that the costumes were vac-formed by a subcontacted (by Lucasfilm) firm...and assembled by LFL using an old ESB costume as a guide... which explains the ESB decals and resin Hovi-Mix aerators on the background studio ROTJ helmets.

The previous owner is a professional in the UK film industry, and certainly isn't old enough to have had a promotions company 'in the day' (assuming that you mean early 80's?)

Perhaps if pics of the Propmasters and Restoration helmets had been on the web back in '99 your buddy's deciscion would have been different - thank God he *didn't* buy it though!

As for the inside, no clue. Since all the helmets I have seen are both beige and white and are made the same way. So, I would not call this a decideing factor as being real, but more like a factor that all three share at this point.

Hmmm.. well then the helmets that you've seen mustn't be background studio helmets, or perhaps they had *foreground* studio helmets as well??

Who knows? Neither of us it seems... but the simple fact is that the *other 2* background studio helmets originated from the Elstree Death Star docking bay set in 1982, and because my helmet is a 100% match for them I can only assume that it shares the same pedigree.

Unless the owners of the other 2 background studio helmets are lying about the origins of *their* helmets, but I can think of no feasible alternative. (global conspiracy anyone? LOL)

If you ever do get the '411' on ROTJ Stormtroopers, I hope that you'll share it publicly as I for one, would love to read it

Cheers,

John

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

×
×
  • Create New...